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Phenomenal incomes 
Post: #1   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:13 am Reply with quote
devil
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I agree with Corbyn that some personal 'salaries' are totally obscene. The proposal is a cap on excessive salary levels, but I think that is wrong; I believe that supertaxing may be better, based on genuinely assessed taxable income. It should be on a sliding scale:

If >50m tax rate tranche greater than the threshold: 95%
if >40m: 80%
if >30m: 70%
if >25m: 60%
if >20m: 50%
if >15m: 40%
Below 15m, at current taxation rates

The above would apply to all personal incomes, whether footballers, actors, industrialists, economists, bankers, road sweepers, whatever. The only exception I would make is receipt of a one-off windfall which could be amortised over, say, 5 Years. I would also limit tax relief on charitable donations to an annual tithe of 10% of gross income; anything over the 10% would have no tax relief.

Corporate taxation is more complex but the tax due should be calculated on the number of employees as well as income, to encourage employment.

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Post: #2   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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What would stop the high wealth individuals from simply moving their
tax base to a country with lower tax levels?

Paying a reasonable share of earnings is fair but the above seems punitive.

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Steve
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:34 pm Reply with quote
cansweet
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I would imagine the income earner will advise his finance people to arrange his earnings to be structured in such a way that the revenue people will only get the minimum and all within the law. There's always a way, that's why accountants of that calibre are very well paid.
The only way to get a little extra into the goverment coffers from these guys is to go after the pension side of things, that's where the lolly resides. Confused
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:58 pm Reply with quote
bubblechris
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Aren't there simpler ways of stopping the obscene high earners getting these amounts? eg top pay in a company should not be a more than an agreed multiple of the lowest workers pay. Better still if this isn't acceptable then insist that companies work as per the John Lewis Partnership wages structure where I understand the Chairman gets a maximum of 700000 and the workers get a share of the profits.

Basically stop the top earners creaming off the profits from successful companies. Theresa May was going to insist on workers on Boards that that has been pushed aside, one wonders why.

Something along these lines would still allow the top earners to get top wages and for the lower paid, as Jeremy would say - rewards must be shared.
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Re: Phenomenal incomes 
Post: #5   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:40 pm Reply with quote
2diffs
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
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devil wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38568116

I agree with Corbyn that some personal 'salaries' are totally obscene. The proposal is a cap on excessive salary levels, but I think that is wrong; I believe that supertaxing may be better, based on genuinely assessed taxable income. It should be on a sliding scale:

If >50m tax rate tranche greater than the threshold: 95%
if >40m: 80%
if >30m: 70%
if >25m: 60%
if >20m: 50%
if >15m: 40%
Below 15m, at current taxation rates

The above would apply to all personal incomes, whether footballers, actors, industrialists, economists, bankers, road sweepers, whatever. The only exception I would make is receipt of a one-off windfall which could be amortised over, say, 5 Years. I would also limit tax relief on charitable donations to an annual tithe of 10% of gross income; anything over the 10% would have no tax relief.

Corporate taxation is more complex but the tax due should be calculated on the number of employees as well as income, to encourage employment.


To put it into perspective a supertax of 95% means that the cost of a 10 quid CD to the taxee is 200 quid out of his income.

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Post: #6   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Mr Tibbs
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bubblechris wrote:
Aren't there simpler ways of stopping the obscene high earners getting these amounts? eg top pay in a company should not be a more than an agreed multiple of the lowest workers pay. Better still if this isn't acceptable then insist that companies work as per the John Lewis Partnership wages structure where I understand the Chairman gets a maximum of 700000 and the workers get a share of the profits.

Basically stop the top earners creaming off the profits from successful companies. Theresa May was going to insist on workers on Boards that that has been pushed aside, one wonders why.

Something along these lines would still allow the top earners to get top wages and for the lower paid, as Jeremy would say - rewards must be shared.


The Chairman of John Lewis got 1.53 million last year:

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John Lewis is a special case though, because of its coop structure. If the CEO gets more, the other employees presumably get less, since profits are shared. I'm not sure how such things are set there but I can see why it's more of an issue than for a normal company.

Otherwise it's the shareholders' money and they usually get to approve exec wages. I don't see that it's anyone else's business how much a CEO gets paid, other than the people paying him.

Share options are often held by the employees in certain types of businesses. Notably IT and Biotech, where the average qualification and skill level of the employees is high. Although I had share options whilst working for Capital & Counties in a fairly minor role, before retiring. You see something similar in the professions, where there's a partnership.

It's ironic that the Marxist dream of workers owning the business actually comes closest to fruition at the cutting edge of capitalism.

Corbyn wants to do it the old way, of course.

This, like Corbyn's recent pronouncements and u turns on immigration, is apparently part of his "relaunch" in the face of Labour's dire polling. Coming at a time in the electoral cycle when they should be riding high. I wonder why?

Wrt the immigration issue. Has anybody at all in the Labour party looked at the results from their core voter base on the Brexit issue? The Left are in total denial.

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incomes 
Post: #7   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:33 pm Reply with quote
crissbroon
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Increasing the minimum wage to a comfortable (not subsistence) level for all workers would reduce profits and leave less to pay out obscene salaries and bonuses to the few elite.
How many times do we hear of companies shedding jobs or complaining of falling profits because of wage bills. only to discover that their profits were still huge.
The Government would also save billions on welfare if minimum wages were high enough to negate the need for applying for benefits.
How ridiculous that people who are working still need welfare in order to live. That is the true scandal.
As long as the deluded Tory voters (closet snobs usually) fail to grasp this simple fact. they and us will continue to line the pockets of the rich.
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Post: #8   PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Kwacka
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With listed companies the renumeration of those at the top are agreed at AGM.

Unfortunately large blocs of shares are now held by pension funds, hedge funds, etc. so the shareholder with a few (hundred? thousand?) shares no longer has a voice in the firm.

I seem to recall that some months back that one industrial country had enacted (or planned to enact) law to restrict the top-earners' pay to a multiplicand of the income of the lowest earner with that company but (as yet) I haven't been able to find the source, e.g. for the CEO to get a 5% rise, it would mean that the person who swept the floor(for example) would also get a 5% rise.

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Re: incomes 
Post: #9   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:09 am Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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crissbroon wrote:
Increasing the minimum wage to a comfortable (not subsistence) level for all workers would reduce profits and leave less to pay out obscene salaries and bonuses to the few elite.
How many times do we hear of companies shedding jobs or complaining of falling profits because of wage bills. only to discover that their profits were still huge.
The Government would also save billions on welfare if minimum wages were high enough to negate the need for applying for benefits.
How ridiculous that people who are working still need welfare in order to live. That is the true scandal.
As long as the deluded Tory voters (closet snobs usually) fail to grasp this simple fact. they and us will continue to line the pockets of the rich.


Whilst that all sounds good wouldn't the businesses that are hit the
hardest by an increase in costs be the small to medium sized ones that
employ proportionally more people than the large ones?

If an increase in costs is added to price of goods & services would the
purchasers be willing to absorb that given we all seem to want the
lowest price possible?

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 am Reply with quote
Steve Moss
Joined: 23 Oct 2016
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Am I misreading this, or does Devil's proposed tax regime only kick in at incomes above 15 million?
If so, how many people realistically would be affected?
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:31 am Reply with quote
Gashead
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Thats a couple of years old now but the top 3,000 earners in Britain already pay more tax than the bottom 9 million people.
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Post: #12   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:34 am Reply with quote
Gashead
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Location: Dubai

 
Steve Moss wrote:
Am I misreading this, or does Devil's proposed tax regime only kick in at incomes above 15 million?
If so, how many people realistically would be affected?


Not many. A 'mere' 180,000 a year puts you in the top 1%. The boss of Burberry earns 18 million and she is #25 on the UK rich list.
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Re: incomes 
Post: #13   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:23 am Reply with quote
Mr Tibbs
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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crissbroon wrote:
As long as the deluded Tory voters (closet snobs usually) fail to grasp this simple fact. they and us will continue to line the pockets of the rich.


What a daft thing to say. Do they also all wear top hats and stick little kids up chimneys? Rolling Eyes

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Post: #14   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 am Reply with quote
bubblechris
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
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They probably would if it doubled their bonuses.
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Re: incomes 
Post: #15   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:25 am Reply with quote
crissbroon
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 651
Pictures: 0
Location: Scotland and Xylophagou

 
Steve - SJD wrote:
crissbroon wrote:
Increasing the minimum wage to a comfortable (not subsistence) level for all workers would reduce profits and leave less to pay out obscene salaries and bonuses to the few elite.
How many times do we hear of companies shedding jobs or complaining of falling profits because of wage bills. only to discover that their profits were still huge.
The Government would also save billions on welfare if minimum wages were high enough to negate the need for applying for benefits.
How ridiculous that people who are working still need welfare in order to live. That is the true scandal.
As long as the deluded Tory voters (closet snobs usually) fail to grasp this simple fact. they and us will continue to line the pockets of the rich.


Whilst that all sounds good wouldn't the businesses that are hit the
hardest by an increase in costs be the small to medium sized ones that
employ proportionally more people than the large ones?

If an increase in costs is added to price of goods & services would the
purchasers be willing to absorb that given we all seem to want the
lowest price possible?

Cheers

Steve


If the wages of the workers are too low to allow a comfortable living and still requiring workers to seek Government financial assistance, eg tax credits, rent rebates, family allowance etc. (not to mention those drawing dole who could actually end up worse off by working) then the purchasers of these goods and services are still paying out and absorbing extra costs that should be borne by these companies in the form of better wages.
If a company's margins are so tight that they cannot pay a decent wage then I would suggest that the lack of sufficient skill of those running such a company are what should be in question and yet it is them who are walking away with the high salary and bonuses.
In a nutshell it is the public who end up subsidizing these companies and thus allowing the abuse by those in charge to continue unabated.
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Re: incomes 
Post: #16   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:31 am Reply with quote
crissbroon
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Mr Tibbs wrote:
crissbroon wrote:
As long as the deluded Tory voters (closet snobs usually) fail to grasp this simple fact. they and us will continue to line the pockets of the rich.


What a daft thing to say. Do they also all wear top hats and stick little kids up chimneys? Rolling Eyes


Well, they have no need to stick little kids up chimneys since they destroyed the coal industry and made chimneys redundant, do they.
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Post: #17   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Hudswell
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Actually labour under Harold Wilson closed more coal mine than the Conservatives under Mrs Thatcher, almost twice as many actually.

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incomes 
Post: #18   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:19 pm Reply with quote
crissbroon
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Scotland and Xylophagou

 
Hudswell wrote:
Actually labour under Harold Wilson closed more coal mine than the Conservatives under Mrs Thatcher, almost twice as many actually.


That is a fact. However, in isolation it does not tell the whole story. Labour (quite rightly) closed mines that were uneconomical in an attempt to strengthen the industry. These mines were generally smaller and not viable.
The Tories incentive to close the industry was not for economical reasons but was more about destroying the powerful NUM and any other militant unions around at the time. In other words political reasons.
This is borne out by the fact that whilst Labour closures resulted in 200,000 lost jobs, subsequent Tory closures resulted in three times that amount.
If success in destroying the NUM meant losing the entire industry then so be it.
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Post: #19   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:48 pm Reply with quote
mouse
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bubblechris wrote:
They probably would if it doubled their bonuses.


Laughing Laughing

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Re: incomes 
Post: #20   PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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crissbroon wrote:
If a company's margins are so tight that they cannot pay a decent wage then I would suggest that the lack of sufficient skill of those running such a company are what should be in question and yet it is them who are walking away with the high salary and bonuses.
In a nutshell it is the public who end up subsidizing these companies and thus allowing the abuse by those in charge to continue unabated.


Whilst I agree that government subsidies should be kept to a minimum what
people consider to be a decent wage is subjective.

I would suggest that the majority of business owners in the small to medium
sized category who are responsible for about 60% of the employment are
not on obscene salaries and huge bonuses. They are the backbone of the
economy and in many cases margins are tight as the relentless drive to
reduce prices continues.

Subjecting them to the burden of an increased wage bill at a time of
economic uncertainty seems a recipe for increased unemployment to
me.

Cheers

Steve
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Phenomenal incomes 
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