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British veterans in Cyprus could be tried over allegations o 
Post: #1   PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:49 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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British veterans in Cyprus could be tried over allegations of abuse – The Times

British veterans could face allegations of wrongdoing from operations during the
EOKA struggle in the 1950s, the UK’s Ministry of Defence’s former legal chief
told the Times.

Soldiers who served in Malaysia and Cyprus more than half a century ago could
be tried if the government “fails to introduce curbs,” Jonathan Duke-Evans who
ran the MoD’s litigation policy unit until 2017 said.

The legal action could be launched after an attempt by 40,000 Kenyans to sue
the government for alleged maltreatment, during the Kenyan Emergency
between... [
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:26 pm Reply with quote
Jacs
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It's also happening to veterans of the Northern Island conflict. They are willing to chase and harass these veterans whilst the murdering * Fatherless * from the IRA have been given the "get out of jail free" card and walk the streets, knowing they can never be bought to justice.

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Post: #3   PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:14 pm Reply with quote
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All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.

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Post: #4   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:49 am Reply with quote
Bobbeer
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And they wonder why they cannot meet the recruiting targets for the Forces...

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Post: #5   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:58 am Reply with quote
scottie
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Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Hudswell
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scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?


You mean these "allegations" and what occurs on a battlefield, in a conflict in war never quite sits well with the politicians or the population that send them...is never nice, or clean..or civilised....and unless you've actually been in a situation like some service personnel have been subjected to....hopefully legislation is on its way to prevent the harassment of our service personnel and prevent millions of public pounds being squandered.

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Post: #7   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:19 pm Reply with quote
scottie
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Hudswell wrote:
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?


You mean these "allegations" and what occurs on a battlefield, in a conflict in war never quite sits well with the politicians or the population that send them...is never nice, or clean..or civilised....and unless you've actually been in a situation like some service personnel have been subjected to....hopefully legislation is on its way to prevent the harassment of our service personnel and prevent millions of public pounds being squandered.


Surely it does no harm to uncover the atrocities carried out by whosoever ?. Money aside ,there are some bad apples in all walks of life and their actions , if proved should not go unpunished . This to my way of thinking can only enhance the image of any organisation carrying out an enquiry .
You only have to look at the findings from Vietnam for example to see that some things cannot remain unresolved
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Post: #8   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Jacs
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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Location: Swansea/Kapparis

 
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?


You mean these "allegations" and what occurs on a battlefield, in a conflict in war never quite sits well with the politicians or the population that send them...is never nice, or clean..or civilised....and unless you've actually been in a situation like some service personnel have been subjected to....hopefully legislation is on its way to prevent the harassment of our service personnel and prevent millions of public pounds being squandered.


Surely it does no harm to uncover the atrocities carried out by whosoever ?. Money aside ,there are some bad apples in all walks of life and their actions , if proved should not go unpunished . This to my way of thinking can only enhance the image of any organisation carrying out an enquiry .
You only have to look at the findings from Vietnam for example to see that some things cannot remain unresolved




Well said Hudswell, I couldn't agree with you more.

Scottie, I will not answer your reply to Hudswell as obviously you have never been in a position to be able to understand what happens in conflicts.

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Post: #9   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Kwacka
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Jacs wrote:

Scottie, I will not answer your reply to Hudswell as obviously you have never been in a position to be able to understand what happens in conflicts.


Are you suggesting that everything that happens in conflicts is OK?

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Post: #10   PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:48 pm Reply with quote
scottie
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Jacs wrote:
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?


You mean these "allegations" and what occurs on a battlefield, in a conflict in war never quite sits well with the politicians or the population that send them...is never nice, or clean..or civilised....and unless you've actually been in a situation like some service personnel have been subjected to....hopefully legislation is on its way to prevent the harassment of our service personnel and prevent millions of public pounds being squandered.


Surely it does no harm to uncover the atrocities carried out by whosoever ?. Money aside ,there are some bad apples in all walks of life and their actions , if proved should not go unpunished . This to my way of thinking can only enhance the image of any organisation carrying out an enquiry .
You only have to look at the findings from Vietnam for example to see that some things cannot remain unresolved




Well said Hudswell, I couldn't agree with you more.

Scottie, I will not answer your reply to Hudswell as obviously you have never been in a position to be able to understand what happens in conflicts.


What a ridiculous thing to say. Ok if you don't agree , say so but to say if you were not there you cannot give an opinion is as I say ridiculous. 😱

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Post: #11   PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:29 am Reply with quote
Hudswell
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scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
scottie wrote:
Hudswell wrote:
All egged on by legal spivs who win or loose will always make Money off the backs of those that have served their country selflessly. This not about justice or closure it's about money, compensation for those "effected". Afgan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Sierra Leone, Aden, Cyprus, Malaysia, Kenya..I am sure the FRY will be dragged into it at some stage...disgraceful behaviour on the lawyers part, who actively go looking for these "cases" and shame on the Government for allowing it to happen.


Perhaps the onus was on the government of the time to make sure " these cases " did noit occur in the first place ?


You mean these "allegations" and what occurs on a battlefield, in a conflict in war never quite sits well with the politicians or the population that send them...is never nice, or clean..or civilised....and unless you've actually been in a situation like some service personnel have been subjected to....hopefully legislation is on its way to prevent the harassment of our service personnel and prevent millions of public pounds being squandered.


Surely it does no harm to uncover the atrocities carried out by whosoever ?. Money aside ,there are some bad apples in all walks of life and their actions , if proved should not go unpunished . This to my way of thinking can only enhance the image of any organisation carrying out an enquiry .
You only have to look at the findings from Vietnam for example to see that some things cannot remain unresolved


in the vast majority of these "atrocities" they have not been uncovered, they have been embellished with no recourse to the situation at that time, and in invariably from the side of the aggrieved...and "proof" after so many years is at best....tenuous. The British Armed Forces have an enviable reputation, and are scrupulous in its investigations of "alleged" crimes committed in combat...recent events in Iraq and Afgan prove that. The Armed Forces invariably act and operate within rules...it is a pity that those that are now seeking compensation for the "injustices" against them didn't...and considered murder of innocents par for the course.

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Post: #12   PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:08 am Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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Hudswell wrote:
in the vast majority of these "atrocities" they have not been uncovered, they have been embellished with no recourse to the situation at that time, and in invariably from the side of the aggrieved...and "proof" after so many years is at best....tenuous.



Hudswell wrote:
it is a pity that those that are now seeking compensation for the "injustices" against them didn't...and considered murder of innocents par for the course.


You can't have it both ways Hudswell - you can't object that there is no proof
against the soldiers (which there may well not be) but then go on to
categorically state that those making claims considered murdering civilians to
be ok - with no proof. You dont know who those making claims are or what
their claims involve so have no basis for the statement.

Personally I think a statue of limititations would be a fair & reasonable idea to
avoid having to defend claims decades after the event with all the issues that
entails. However claims should be dealt with expeditiously to prevent
claimants being unable to go forward due to being out of time.

Our soldiers on the whole do a great job - often thankless and in
controversial situations. However to keep the professional reputation that
they hold they must be able to be held accountable for actions, which
even in difficult circumstances, fall below what is expected of them.

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Post: #13   PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 am Reply with quote
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You will note steve I said in the "majority" of these cases, their is insufficient, sketchy or mearly anecdotal evidence, lost in the mists of time. If firm evidence exists, indeed as has been proven in cases such as the Royal Marine Sergeant, decisive action is taken. Service personnel are held accountable for ther ,actions, actions often taken in circumstances you could never imagine...and whilst in the cold light of day, generations later appear brutal and inhumane....were in many cases appropriate to the situation at the time. It's not having it both ways and I agree completely with a statute of limitations.

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Post: #14   PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:44 am Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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Hudswell wrote:
You will note steve I said in the "majority" of these cases, their is insufficient, sketchy or mearly anecdotal evidence, lost in the mists of time. If firm evidence exists, indeed as has been proven in cases such as the Royal Marine Sergeant, decisive action is taken. Service personnel are held accountable for ther ,actions, actions often taken in circumstances you could never imagine...and whilst in the cold light of day, generations later appear brutal and inhumane....were in many cases appropriate to the situation at the time. It's not having it both ways and I agree completely with a statute of limitations.


You missed the point.

We, at this stage, have no proof that any soldiers did anything wrong and
as you say any claims that do arise would be allegations at this point until
proven or otherwise.

In the same way you cannot then go on to catgeorically state "those that
are now seeking compensation for the "injustices" against them didn't...and
considered murder of innocents par for the course." You don't know that
to be true, you have no proof to substantiate it and you don't even know
who are the people making claims.

I appreciate your background but let's have a bit of balance.

Cheers

Steve
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