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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital, defying alli 
Post: #1   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:17 am Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital, defying allies, foes

WASHINGTON/JERUSALEM (Reuters) Ė President Donald Trump on
Wednesday reversed decades of U.S. policy and recognised Jerusalem as
the capital of Israel, imperilling Middle East peace efforts and upsetting
Washingtonís friends and foes alike.

Trump announced his administration would begin a process of moving the
U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a step expected to take years and
one that his predecessors opted not to take to avoid inflaming tensions.

The status of Jerusalem Ė home to... [
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:48 am Reply with quote
devil
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Unfortunately, a sure increase of conflict in the 'Holy' Land.

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Post: #3   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 am Reply with quote
mouse
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It has been said many times on here.

Trump is a danger to World Peace.

But I think a couple of his adoring fans on here will disagree even now.

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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #4   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:35 am Reply with quote
Pete The Highwayman
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Mouse
You must be talking about me and yes I like Donald trump
He reminds me of me we donít take no two bob bit off no one
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:11 am Reply with quote
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mouse wrote:
It has been said many times on here.

Trump is a danger to World Peace.

But I think a couple of his adoring fans on here will disagree even now.


I don't know about adoring fans. There's certainly been no shortage of anti-Trump mania. That since before the man even set foot in the WH. The hypocrisy regularly displayed being pretty typical. The likes of outrageous indignation at the mere thought of his (the leader of our strongest ally) visiting the UK, whilst with Xi Jinping, a man that has responsibility for the blood of thousands, the subjugation of an entire nation for 70 years and aggressive military expansion in the South China Sea + on the border with India it's a case of "Welcome!. Do try out this nice red carpet we had made for you. More tea?" Rolling Eyes

Whilst, outside of Tel Aviv, this move seems somewhat less than helpful it is in accordance with a campaign promise Trump made (Shock! Horror!).

It strikes me anyway that in reality there's very little done, of any substance, in that part of the world which doesn't result in widespread condemnation, whilst presenting a threat to peace negotiations. What negotiations? What peace?

At the end of the day though I suppose what really matters is how Trump's going down with the sort of person who voted for him. Next November, with the mid-terms, there will be a clearer indication whither he heads in history. At the moment it looks very much like - must try harder. Laughing In which case, you will have a new POTUS to indignantly post about in 2020. Well, unless it's a Bernie Sanders type of course. That's something that isn't going to happen in some of the countries people should perhaps be a little more concerned about.

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As far as Trump being a threat to world peace goes. I personally believe that people like Obama are much more so. Shrewd players - those who have no domestic "opposition" to trouble them - the Putins, saw him for exactly what he was - a Chamberlain. If you're after a real potential threat in that respect you might want to take a closer look at the direction Hillary was headed in. Shocked

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Post: #6   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:37 am Reply with quote
mouse
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[quote="Mr Tibbs"]
mouse wrote:
It has been said many times on here.

Trump is a danger to World Peace.

But I think a couple of his adoring fans on here will disagree even now.


Quote:
I don't know about adoring fans. There's certainly been no shortage of anti-Trump mania. That since before the man even set foot in the WH. The hypocrisy regularly displayed being pretty typical. The likes of outrageous indignation at the mere thought of his (the leader of our strongest ally) visiting the UK, whilst with Xi Jinping, a man that has responsibility for the blood of thousands, the subjugation of an entire nation for 70 years and aggressive military expansion in the South China Sea + on the border with India it's a case of "Welcome!. Do try out this nice red carpet we had made for you. More tea?" Rolling Eyes



Why is it that when we talk about one despot you always respond with another.

Almost as if that's it ok because there is always someone worse.

There will always be someone who is more despicable, that is life.

But I have got news for you, " It doesn't make it right."

I think what it should boil down too is that because he is the most powerful man on the planet, head of State of the most powerful Nation on this planet that perhaps he should show a bit of responsibility and take notice of what his advisors say and his supposed friends of other Nations.

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Post: #7   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:11 am Reply with quote
devil
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Mr Tibbs wrote:


Whilst, outside of Tel Aviv, this move seems somewhat less than helpful it is in accordance with a campaign promise Trump made (Shock! Horror!).


Just because he made a campaign promise does not mean he has to fulfill it at a very inappropriate moment and in defiance of total (except Israel and ~30% of US electorate).

I find your espousing of US politics rather strange, as they are at variance with world opinion and commonsense, especially as you are a rabid Tory.

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Re: Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #8   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:31 am Reply with quote
mouse
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Pete The Highwayman wrote:
Mouse
You must be talking about me and yes I like Donald trump
He reminds me of me we donít take no two bob bit off no one
Pete


Pete mate

A short time ago you said " Partnerships are built with Trust"

With Trump's last act he has gone against the advice and wishes of every United States ally apart from Israel. Some trust.

I think I know you enough Pete to say you would not do that.

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Post: #9   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:32 am Reply with quote
Mr Tibbs
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devil wrote:
Mr Tibbs wrote:


Whilst, outside of Tel Aviv, this move seems somewhat less than helpful it is in accordance with a campaign promise Trump made (Shock! Horror!).


Just because he made a campaign promise does not mean he has to fulfill it at a very inappropriate moment and in defiance of total (except Israel and ~30% of US electorate).


I'm not defending nor condemning his action. I merely point out that it surely can't have come as a surprise? Although, on reflection, politicians actually fulfilling their campaign promises could I suppose be good reason for one.

As far as timing goes, would there ever be a good one for such an announcement?
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devil wrote:
I find your espousing of US politics rather strange, as they are at variance with world opinion and commonsense, especially as you are a rabid Tory.


Again. I'm not espousing (supporting). See above.

Rabid? As in fanatical/extreme supporter?
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Not really. I'm certainly less than rabid about the way things have been going recently.

Your perspective is out of kilter Dev. IIRC on at least one occasion in the past you described Cameron as "An extreme right winger". Same OTT stereotyping here. If you see what I mean.
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:35 am Reply with quote
sugarray1955
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Same old, same old Wink Wink Wink
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:59 am Reply with quote
devil
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Mr T,

Well, that certainly put you on the defensive. n'est ce pas?

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Post: #12   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Mr Tibbs
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mouse wrote:
Why is it that when we talk about one despot you always respond with another.

Almost as if that's it ok because there is always someone worse.

There will always be someone who is more despicable, that is life.

But I have got news for you, " It doesn't make it right."


I think that demonstrates the point I am trying to make perfectly.

A despot is somebody with absolute power that uses it to rule cruelly or oppressively. Is that how you actually see Donald Trump? I got the impression that to you (the Royal "you") he was usually more often than not at the comic end of the scale.

I apologise for going off the Jerusalem thread somewhat but the comparison I made is - as I said - typical of the hypocrisy shown in a lot (emphasis being on a lot) of the anti-Trump diet we are fed daily.

China is a country which executes thousands of its citizens every single year. The concept of respect for human rights is a joke there. You can be arrested and imprisoned for a long time over things we would regard as trivial. That's party policy. Moreover, it's perhaps needless to say that China of course has never been a notable ally of Britain. However, when the Chinese President came on a State visit to the UK he was absolutely feted. Furthermore, he isn't the only blood-stained tyrant to receive a warm State welcome in the past either.

Conversely, at the mere suggestion that the newly elected President of our strongest ally, a pussycat compared to Jinping, should undertake a similar visit there's mouth-frothing apoplexy. It's total hypocrisy.

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Post: #13   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:11 pm Reply with quote
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sugarray1955 wrote:
Same old, same old Wink Wink Wink


devil wrote:
Mr T,

Well, that certainly put you on the defensive. n'est ce pas?


You have to admire the paucity of the anti-Trump one-liners. There's simply no answer.


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He isn't a man easily admired - and actually, despite the best of the best's efforts to prove otherwise - I don't. The best I can come up with is a sort of .........................
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.............. interested indifference.

It's a quiet day.
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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #14   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Pete The Highwayman
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Mouse
I always thought Jerusalem was Israelís capital
Because at the time of Jesus I donít think tel a viv existed
Been to Sainsburyís this morning and it was raining cats and dogs
But they said the rain would stop at midday and it did
I think that weather forecast lately is marvellous
Keep smiling
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Re: Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #15   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
mouse
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Pete The Highwayman wrote:
Mouse
I always thought Jerusalem was Israelís capital
Because at the time of Jesus I donít think tel a viv existed
Been to Sainsburyís this morning and it was raining cats and dogs
But they said the rain would stop at midday and it did
I think that weather forecast lately is marvellous
Keep smiling
Pete


Still got nothing to do with my question to you Pete.

But at the time of Jesus I think Caesaria was the Political capital and Jerusalem was the Religious capital.

And there is trouble brewing already if you have watched the latest news.

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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #16   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Pete The Highwayman
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Mouse
If Israel wants to make Jerusalem its capital city
Whatís that got to do with anybody else
I ainít a Jew Iím the complete opposite I donít practise but raised a catholic
But I like the Israelis they donít take any rubbish off no one
Not like over here you canít say this you canít say that
As Iíve said before put that political correct mob against a wall and shoot
them better still shoot them twice to make sure there dead
Pete
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Re: Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #17   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:11 pm Reply with quote
mouse
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Pete The Highwayman wrote:
Mouse
If Israel wants to make Jerusalem its capital city
Whatís that got to do with anybody else
I ainít a Jew Iím the complete opposite I donít practise but raised a catholic
But I like the Israelis they donít take any rubbish off no one
Not like over here you canít say this you canít say that
As Iíve said before put that political correct mob against a wall and shoot
them better still shoot them twice to make sure there dead
Pete


You still don't grasp it Pete.

It is Trump that has now recognised Jerusalem as the Capital.

Israel has always recognised Jerusalem as the Capital.

I think most people know and recognise the fact.

Bit like if Trump recognised the trnc. Turkey recognises it, but the rest of the World does not.

Likewise with Jerusalem.

Now do you get it.

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Re: Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #18   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:19 pm Reply with quote
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Pete The Highwayman wrote:
Mouse
I always thought Jerusalem was Israelís capital
Because at the time of Jesus I donít think tel a viv existed
Been to Sainsburyís this morning and it was raining cats and dogs
But they said the rain would stop at midday and it did
I think that weather forecast lately is marvellous
Keep smiling
Pete


You're right, Tel Aviv only started about 100 years ago, when followers of Judaism decided to emigrate to Palestine.

I heard a few American politicians (both R. and D.) yesterday and today agreeing with Trump, one this morning claimed that the UN decided to make Israel a state in 1947 and the Arabic nations didn't like it. palestine was, at that time, a British mandate and the U.N. had no right to interfere.

Unfortunately that's not the full truth, nor is the statement by a different politician that Israel was the only democratic state in the M.E.

The UN proposed a partition plan which was accepted by the Israeli immigrants (and their descendents) but not by the people who were indiginous to the region. The British government gave in to the Israeli terrorists and announced they would be giving up their mandate on 1st April, 1948, and would not enforce the partition plan. The USA applied pressure by linking US foreign aid with recognition of the plan.

One day later, Israel declared it was an independent state and was immediately recognised by the USA (the UK followed 3 days later). Arab states supported those arabs living in the new state and went to war, unfortunately for them, many settlers had fought in WW II (on both sides) and had military experience that the Arab states didn't have, which led to the Israeli victory, with 700,000 refugees forced out of their homes (some by arab extremists, but maily by Israeli military and extremists)

After 1967's six-day war, Israel took over more arab land and disregarded international law by keeping it and placing settlements in it.

This year 'celebrates' the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Proposal which suggested
Quote:
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
i.e. NOT to replace the state of Palestine, and to respect the rights of ALL citizens (repeated in the 1947 UN proposal) - in 1947 the Jewish population was in the region of 33%.

Jerusalem, under the plan, was neither Israeli nor Palestinian, but was an 'international zone'. East Jerusalem, populated by palestinians, has about one-third of the population of the city.

Belatedly, the PLO accepted the Patrition Plan in 1988.

Regarding Israel as a democracy, approximately 20% of the population do not have the right to vote (not including children), if Gaza is included that figure rises to about 33%. There are several towns which are not 'recognised' which means to the government they don't exist - no schools, hospitals, water, sewage, or any other benefits that a 'recognised' town enjoys.

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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #19   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:26 pm Reply with quote
Pete The Highwayman
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Mouse
You have lost me if Israel recognises Jerusalem as itís capital
What are the rest of the world arguing about itís nothing to do with anybody
But Israel next they will be saying because turkey is in Nicosia
It ainít the capital of Cyprus anymore I donít no how I ran a susessfull business because sometimes on here I really canít grasp it
Pete
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Re: Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital 
Post: #20   PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm Reply with quote
mouse
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Pete The Highwayman wrote:
Mouse
You have lost me if Israel recognises Jerusalem as itís capital
What are the rest of the world arguing about itís nothing to do with anybody
But Israel next they will be saying because turkey is in Nicosia
It ainít the capital of Cyprus anymore I donít no how I ran a susessfull business because sometimes on here I really canít grasp it
Pete


Just read all of Kwacka's last post.

So what you are saying is that if Trump and the States recognise the Illegal trnc, ( that's north Cyprus pete) it will make it legal, even though the Rest of the world do not recognise.

So that would be ok then.

Ask your wife if she would accept that and agree with it. Rolling Eyes

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Trump recognises Jerusalem as Israelís capital, defying alli 
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