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Cyprus Eastern Forum Index » Ask Nigel A Question » mangement company. Goto page Previous  1, 2
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Post: #21   PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:55 pm Reply with quote
chiploi
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 430
Pictures: 16
Location: Paralimni

 
I live in a complex where one of the apartments has not been sold.
Since 2008 nothing has been paid for communal expenses for this property
The apartment has now been taken over by one of the developer's banks
Has any other complex been in this situation?
If so has any money been received from the bank for communal expenses?
We are now in the process of having the complex decorated and wondered whether we can expect the bank to contribute.

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Roy
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Post: #22   PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:40 pm Reply with quote
sunnysuzie
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1290
Pictures: 6
Location: Oroklini

 
Journo,
Can you tell me the name of your lawyer please? Ours are useless so I am looking for another to recover unpaid communal fees.

Many thanks

Sue
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Post: #23   PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:10 am Reply with quote
davidmonk
Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 310
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Location: UK, Bromsgrove

 
[quote="snoutintrough"]Thanks Nigel Smile

snoutintrough wrote:
Hi All

Can anyone tell me the answers to any of these questions;


I will give you my answers based on my experience of being on a management committee.

snoutintrough wrote:
1. If none of the elected committee are based in Cyprus, is there another way that would be legally acceptable to hold an AGM rather than having to be on site?

For my complex, an EGM was recently held, which would have been valid had I agreed to where it was held and how it was held. The EGM was purely a postal vote conducted by proxy voting. The meeting was held in Cyprus, though the majority of owners live in the UK and could not get to the meeting to vote in person. This meeting was solely to elect new members to the committee. The simple answer to this question is; “yes”. Our AGM’s are held in the UK where the majority of owners live.

snoutintrough wrote:
2. Can memo's be placed on properties for non- payment of fees if a committee is not officially registered in the Kapparis / Protaras area?

The management committee for the complex in which I have my apartment is not registered anywhere. The PMC we employ for credit control has just had the ruling from the court to proceed with placing a memo on a property of an owner not contributing towards the communal expenses. Again, my answer is; “yes”.

snoutintrough wrote:
3. What is the minimum the committee has to cover in the agenda in order to hold an AGM?

My personal answer to this is as follows; Since most of the meeting can involve giving presentations, this is the information that could be given in advance sent by email or post. The most essential information to present is a financial report for the previous 12 months (Jan to Dec) and to present the budget for the coming 12 months. If there are major expenses coming up, it is good to let owners know in advance, because these are factored in to the budget. Even in this regard, doing this is not compulsory; only that the committee collect the community fees to cover the expenditure of the previous three months. Hence the Regulations say that the committee has to give a financial statement quarterly to account for the money collected and spent.
Provided the majority of those entitled to vote and who make up the quorum for a meeting to be valid, they can vote the proposals presented. A postal meeting would involve no discussion before voting. I would prefer owners to be present to listen to presentations before voting. I am now against letting owners vote by proxy giving a “yes” or “no” answer, when they have not been present to listen to any discussion that takes place. However, owners can give another owner who is there at the meeting and let be their proxy and let them vote on their behalf.
The law does not say what has to be on the Agenda, but you could make up Regulations (which have to be registered) for this. The one thing that is mentioned and performed at an AGM is the election of the committee. It is the committee that makes all the decisions and is answerable to the owners who elect them. The committee does not have to seek approval of owners before money is spent and decisions taken. If the committee does not perform well, the owners can call an EGM, or wait till the next AGM, and vote off the committee members and elect a new members.

David
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Post: #24   PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:34 pm Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
Pictures: 0

 
David

Thank you for your reply which is really helpful.

May I ask, is your committee registered with the local authority in the Kapparis / Protaras area? If so, what paperwork did you have to submit in order to do so?

Regards

Snoutintrough
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Post: #25   PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:31 am Reply with quote
davidmonk
Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 310
Pictures: 0
Location: UK, Bromsgrove

 
snoutintrough wrote:
David

Thank you for your reply which is really helpful.

May I ask, is your committee registered with the local authority in the Kapparis / Protaras area? If so, what paperwork did you have to submit in order to do so?

Regards

Snoutintrough


Hello Snoutintrough

I did say that the management committee I am on is not registered (anywhere). I am waiting for the time when we can regisiter so that changes to the Regulations can be filed at the Land Registry to make them legally binding. Until then, I maintain that the only Regulations that we have to comply with are those by default as stated in the document relating to buildings in joint ownership.

I know a case where a committee has gone through the process using a Cypriot solicitor and using a Notary from the Cyprus embassy in the UK to get their committee legally recognized in Cyprus.

I read somewhere on this forum a long time ago, that Louise Zambardas only knew of one case where a committee was registered without having title deeds and she did not know how that was managed.

If your committee is using a property management company for credit control and collecting community fees, then that company can take the owners to court using their own solicitor.

I hope that helps.

David
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Post: #26   PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:12 am Reply with quote
J B
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1319
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Location: Shropshire/Staffordshire/Cheshire (UK) and Tala (Paphos) sometimes!

 
davidmonk wrote:
I am waiting for the time when we can regisiter so that changes to the Regulations can be filed at the Land Registry to make them legally binding.


Just for info ...
I'm chairman of our residents association at a ten house complex in Tala, Paphos

The LR there told me that I didn't need to register the association and in fact there was no process available to do so!!

Rolling Eyes

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Post: #27   PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:54 am Reply with quote
nhowarth
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J B wrote:
The LR there told me that I didn't need to register the association and in fact there was no process available to do so!!


That's correct - you only need to register the regulations if they differ from the standard ones contained in the law.

Regards,

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Post: #28   PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:02 pm Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
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davidmonk wrote:
snoutintrough wrote:
David

Thank you for your reply which is really helpful.

May I ask, is your committee registered with the local authority in the Kapparis / Protaras area? If so, what paperwork did you have to submit in order to do so?

Regards

Snoutintrough


Hello Snoutintrough

I did say that the management committee I am on is not registered (anywhere). I am waiting for the time when we can regisiter so that changes to the Regulations can be filed at the Land Registry to make them legally binding. Until then, I maintain that the only Regulations that we have to comply with are those by default as stated in the document relating to buildings in joint ownership.

I know a case where a committee has gone through the process using a Cypriot solicitor and using a Notary from the Cyprus embassy in the UK to get their committee legally recognized in Cyprus.

I read somewhere on this forum a long time ago, that Louise Zambardas only knew of one case where a committee was registered without having title deeds and she did not know how that was managed.

If your committee is using a property management company for credit control and collecting community fees, then that company can take the owners to court using their own solicitor.

I hope that helps.

David


Thanks David for your feedback
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Post: #29   PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:17 pm Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
Pictures: 0

 
Hi,

For information, we have contacted the Land registry office for our area and they have confirmed they have no procedure for officially registering a management committee. Therefore, we are already an official committee in the eyes of the law.

Regards

Snoutintrough
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Post: #30   PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:48 am Reply with quote
nhowarth
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snoutintrough wrote:
no procedure for officially registering a management committee.


That's correct - you only need to register the Regulations if if these have changed from the 'default' Regulations written into the law.

At one of the PICAS meetings a few years ago the lawyer Stelios Stylianou advised that management committees get a rubber stamp made and write a letter to the director of the land registry advising him/her that a management committee had been established - and stamp it.

(I'm the Hon. Sec. of a registered NGO here in Cyprus. We were also advised to get a rubber stamp made for correspondence, etc.)

Regards,

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Post: #31   PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:44 am Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
Pictures: 0

 
journo wrote:


Once we have the court ruling here, we are in a good position to pursue non-Cy-resident EU citizens in their own countries. With police/judicial authorities in EU member countries willingly enforcing the Cyprus rulings there.



Hi Journo, Nigel,

I was wondering what are your thoughts. Will the judicial authorities in the UK still support a court ruling from Cyprus after UK leaves the EU?


Also, can you place a memo on properties if the title deed has not yet been issued?


Cheers

Snoutintrough
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Post: #32   PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:04 pm Reply with quote
nhowarth
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Location: Erimi, Limassol

 
snoutintrough wrote:
I was wondering what are your thoughts. Will the judicial authorities in the UK still support a court ruling from Cyprus after UK leaves the EU?


If you're referring to an EU Enforcement Order, no-one will be able to answer that question until the terms of the BREXIT have been agreed. But even if EU Enforcement Orders are no longer available, the Cyprus judgement could still be put before a UK court.

snoutintrough wrote:
Also, can you place a memo on properties if the title deed has not yet been issued?


As a 'memo' is lodged as a charge against the title of the debtor's property, it cannot be used in cases where the deed for the debtors property has not been transferred. Please refer to my earlier reply:

"Where a Court has issued a judgment in favour of a creditor ordering the other party to the proceedings (judgment debtor) to pay a specified amount of money to the judgment creditor, the creditor may register a charge with the Department of Lands & Surveys against any immovable property registered in the name of the debtor as security for the recovery of the judgment debt."

(Note that the court can also issue an order for the repayment of the debt).

Regards,

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Post: #33   PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:32 pm Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
Pictures: 0

 
Hi Nigel,

Thank you for your reply.

Apologies, I'm still a bit confused.

We have obtained a list of apartment owners on our complex from the land registry. Like many others, our title deeds have not been transferred from the developer. As the owners names are lodged (registered?) with the land registry, does this mean we can place memos on these properties or do we have to wait for the official title deeds to be transferred in the owners names before we can do so?

I have noted that the court can also issue an order for the repayment of the debt but I get the impression their is a lack of enforcement in Cyprus if the debtor doesn't pay. Happy to be proved wrong Very Happy

Cheers

Snoutintrough
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Post: #34   PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:31 pm Reply with quote
nhowarth
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Location: Erimi, Limassol

 
Hi snoutintrough

If the people on your complex do not have the deeds to the apartments they purchased, they do not own the apartments.

Therefore memos cannot be lodged against the apartments they purchased because they do not own them.

The name of the owner of a property is recorded on its Title Deed - and this occurs when the property is transferred to their name.

Regards,

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Post: #35   PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:53 am Reply with quote
snoutintrough
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
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Thank you Nigel.

If it is not the purchaser, who does own the property? Would it still be the developer or the bank? If so, could we still place a memo on the property if the bank / developer own the property?

Cheers,

Snoutintrough
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Post: #36   PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:07 am Reply with quote
nhowarth
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Location: Erimi, Limassol

 
snoutintrough wrote:
If it is not the purchaser, who does own the property? Would it still be the developer or the bank?


The name of the owner of a property is recorded on its Title Deed - the developer.

Once the deeds for the individual apartments have been issued and their purchasers have paid the Property Transfer Fees, their Title Deeds will be updated to show that the purchasers own the apartments.

snoutintrough wrote:
If so, could we still place a memo on the property if the bank / developer own the property?


You cannot place memos for the non-payment of communal fees because the people in your complex do not own the apartments because the Title Deeds are not registered in their name.

Regards,

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