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Finsbury Park: Several people hurt after vehicle hits pedest 
Post: #1   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:58 am Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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Finsbury Park: Several people hurt after vehicle hits pedestrians

A man is fighting for life and several other people were injured when a
white van was driven into worshippers near Finsbury Park mosque.

About 10 pedestrians were hit when the rented van swerved onto the
pavement on Seven Sisters Road shortly after midnight today.

A man was then said to have leapt out of the vehicle, and there were
unconfirmed reports of at least one of the victims have been stabbed... [
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:27 am Reply with quote
Gashead
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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And the only winner here is muslim extremists. Let's hope the communities really pull together on this one. It will be a true test of whether as a country we really are opposed to extremism and hate.

BTW there are a lot of comments on social media about whether or not or how quickly this is classed as a terror attack. The difference here and the difference in the reporting is that he/they will stand trial. The journos have to take a very different and careful view on this despicable crime.
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:23 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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Looks now to have been classed as a terrorist attack but I agree Gashead
the only winner are extremists.

The pressure on the emergency services is intense but as usual they
continue to act professionally and selflessly.

My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

RIP

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:12 pm Reply with quote
DAC
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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Q: If it's a terrorist attack then which terrorist group is claiming it?

It seems to me that it's been branded as a terrorist attack as a means of appeasing the Muslim community so that the Police can't be accused of not giving it the same attention as they did the other attacks. Several years ago, and after the murder of Lee Rigby, a pair of idiots threw some petrol bombs at a Mosque in Grimsby, but they weren't labelled as terrorists, they were just a pair of d-cks, so in the same manor the perpetrator of this attack is also just a d-ck that has been arrested for murder.
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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I would have thought that whether a group claims it or not doesn't alter
whether it is terrorism or not - it may well match the definition. The
authorities seems to consider it a terrorist act and they have more info
than we do.

Any attack where innocent people are injured/killed in such a manner
regardless of what they label it should be denounced.

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:02 pm Reply with quote
DAC
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Quote:
terrorism
tɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


Like I said, which political group is claiming the responsibility for the attack? Because until they do it 's not terrorism, it's a mindless and violent attack that was carried out by an idiot.
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:16 pm Reply with quote
mouse
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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DAC wrote:
Quote:
terrorism
tɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


Like I said, which political group is claiming the responsibility for the attack? Because until they do it 's not terrorism, it's a mindless and violent attack that was carried out by an idiot.


You are still just as dead.


And London Bridge, what category does that fall under.

They were not political, they were nutters, who did it in the name of their God. Rolling Eyes

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Post: #8   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:17 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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DAC wrote:
Quote:
terrorism
tɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


Like I said, which political group is claiming the responsibility for the attack? Because until they do it 's not terrorism, it's a mindless and violent attack that was carried out by an idiot.


In that definition it mentions political aims - it doesn't say that a group
has to claim responsibility.

There are other definitions anyway:

"Terrorism is a term used in its broadest sense to describe the use of
intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror or fear, in
order to achieve a political, religious or ideological aim. It is used in this
regard primarily to refer to violence against civilians or non-combatants."

You don't know what his aims were and neither do I.

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Steve
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Post: #9   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:26 pm Reply with quote
DAC
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Just watched the 6 o'clock news and it transpires that it was originally being reported by the BBC and Sky News as being a "Major Incident," but the Asian/Muslim community weren't happy about that so it was quickly changed to be a terrorist indecent... It has also just been reported that the person who died was already being treated by passersby for having had a heart attack.

But back to my original question, I can only guess that the English Oxford Dictionary is obviously incorrect.
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm Reply with quote
Steve - SJD
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DAC wrote:
Just watched the 6 o'clock news and it transpires that it was originally being reported by the BBC and Sky News as being a "Major Incident," but the Asian/Muslim community weren't happy about that so it was quickly changed to be a terrorist indecent...

But back to my original question, I can only guess that the English Oxford Dictionary is obviously incorrect.


It wasn't quickly changed as I was watching it and It was described as
a "major incident" probably until the Police had a chance to gather
information. It was described differently elsewhere but it was the
middle of the night.

The English Oxford Dictionary isn't wrong - it does not say it has to be
claimed by a political group to be a terrorist act - that's what you are
suggesting. It says political aims and we don't know what his aims were.


Cheers

Steve


Last edited by Steve - SJD on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm Reply with quote
Hudswell
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It was certainly a terror attack, but I do not think it was an act of terrorism...we could argue the "fine line" between the two but in my opinion this was a horrendous racist hate crime. Of course the initial response was correct and quite rightly was a suspected act of terrorism, but it would be wrong to brand it as such if subsequent investigations do not reveal links with terrorism. It is important, in my view, to maintain that distinction.

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Post: #12   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Jan
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Location: Southport

 
I really cannot understand how any human being could deliberately aim a vehicle at people to kill or maim them. I would be heartbroken if I ran over a cat or other animal by mistake.

This driver was from Cardiff and has a wife and children and lives in a decent area. He even replaced a tap for a neighbour on the morning of the event. Then he hired a van and drove to London and did such a terrible crime. What on earth made him do such a thing? His life and his family's life are in tatters and the poor Muslims are injured in their most Holy month.

All religions preach love for each other. Pity that rule is forgotten in these horrible times.
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Post: #13   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:20 pm Reply with quote
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Whether, or not, the correct definition of this incident is 'terrorism' is totally irrelevant!!

Whatever the semantics, this was another deplorable assault on innocent people!

It's also somewhat surprising that, as of yet, a certain right wing activist amongst us hasn't been on to attempt and justify this attack!! Twisted Evil

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Post: #14   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:55 pm Reply with quote
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Woodrow Why?at wrote:
It's also somewhat surprising that, as of yet, a certain right wing activist amongst us hasn't been on to attempt and justify this attack!! Twisted Evil


I am not sure to whom you are referring but doubt anyone would want
to justify it so let's leave it at that.

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #15   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:54 pm Reply with quote
Woodrow Why?at
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Steve - SJD wrote:
Woodrow Why?at wrote:
It's also somewhat surprising that, as of yet, a certain right wing activist amongst us hasn't been on to attempt and justify this attack!! Twisted Evil


I am not sure to whom you are referring but doubt anyone would want
to justify it so let's leave it at that.

Cheers

Steve


"So let's leave it at that" - If that's an order........how very democratic!! Rolling Eyes

And I don't think it was too difficult to ascertain who I was referring to, but here's a clue..........he is a great advocate of the racist thug currently known as Tommy Robinson! Twisted Evil

Shall we 'leave it at that'? Cool

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Post: #16   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Kwacka
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DAC wrote:
Quote:
terrorism
tɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


Like I said, which political group is claiming the responsibility for the attack? Because until they do it 's not terrorism, it's a mindless and violent attack that was carried out by an idiot.


Surely (as in this case) an individual can carry out a heinous act in order to terrorise?

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Post: #17   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Kwacka
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DAC wrote:
Just watched the 6 o'clock news and it transpires that it was originally being reported by the BBC and Sky News as being a "Major Incident," but the Asian/Muslim community weren't happy about that so it was quickly changed to be a terrorist indecent... It has also just been reported that the person who died was already being treated by passersby for having had a heart attack.

But back to my original question, I can only guess that the English Oxford Dictionary is obviously incorrect.


Westminster Bridge was originally reported as a 'major incident'.

As yet, we don't know if this individual carried out the act as an individual or as part of a group, whichever it was it was intended to create terror.

BTW, he OED describes terrorism as "The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." with no mention of groups.

I am a loss as to why you are defending this despicable act.

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Post: #18   PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:48 pm Reply with quote
Kwacka
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Woodrow Why?at wrote:
Steve - SJD wrote:
Woodrow Why?at wrote:
It's also somewhat surprising that, as of yet, a certain right wing activist amongst us hasn't been on to attempt and justify this attack!! Twisted Evil


I am not sure to whom you are referring but doubt anyone would want
to justify it so let's leave it at that.

Cheers

Steve


"So let's leave it at that" - If that's an order........how very democratic!! Rolling Eyes

And I don't think it was too difficult to ascertain who I was referring to, but here's a clue..........he is a great advocate of the racist thug currently known as Tommy Robinson! Twisted Evil

Shall we 'leave it at that'? Cool


What's democracy got to do with it?

You signed up to the rules & regulations of the forum, which has no mention of democracy.

At least the DM deplored Robinson's comments, but the DE didn't mention his statements.

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Post: #19   PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:59 am Reply with quote
Woodrow Why?at
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Kwacka wrote:
Woodrow Why?at wrote:
Steve - SJD wrote:
Woodrow Why?at wrote:
It's also somewhat surprising that, as of yet, a certain right wing activist amongst us hasn't been on to attempt and justify this attack!! Twisted Evil


I am not sure to whom you are referring but doubt anyone would want
to justify it so let's leave it at that.

Cheers

Steve


"So let's leave it at that" - If that's an order........how very democratic!! Rolling Eyes

And I don't think it was too difficult to ascertain who I was referring to, but here's a clue..........he is a great advocate of the racist thug currently known as Tommy Robinson! Twisted Evil

Shall we 'leave it at that'? Cool


What's democracy got to do with it?

You signed up to the rules & regulations of the forum, which has no mention of democracy.

At least the DM deplored Robinson's comments, but the DE didn't mention his statements.


Well, obviously nothing!! Rolling Eyes

And what's the DM and/or DE got to do with it?!!!! Confused

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Post: #20   PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:50 pm Reply with quote
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Bluddy 'ell! What's wrong with you guys? There has been a terrorist attack. All you can argue about is the definition of terrorist, going off at a tangent in every direction by introducing non-sequiturs. Get with it.

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Finsbury Park: Several people hurt after vehicle hits pedest 
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