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Posted By: DAC

Hi all, Not sure how this will pan out, but if you are planning on traveling around this time, Wednesday this week, it might be worthwhile filling up your fuel tank. www.petrolprices.com/blog/petrol-price-protests-planned-for-this-wednesday-86.html Dare say that our so called elected leaders won't pay a blind bit of attention. 40 Billion a year raised in road taxes with on 9 Billion a year spent on roads, pure daylight robbery. Dave But that's just my opinion, and probably not that of those that elected them! :lol:



Posted By: Deb&Geoff

DAC, my only problem with this is that people seem to protest only against the government. OK so the tax paid on fuel is high but it's the oil companies that are forcing the prices up - not the government. One week petrol was about 95 p per litre - a week later it was 1.01. This increase was nothing to do with the government - indeed I don't think the government has ever dared increase fuel by such an amount in one go. Another suggestion that was e-mailed to us was to boycott the two biggest companies - I think it was Shell and BP. So every motorist uses anywhere other than these two companies and then they will be in a weaker position when setting the prices. Not sure if this would work but sounds reasonable. I really hope we don't get to the stage we did last time when the fuel starts to run out - sorry I agree that fuel is expensive but it's the motorist that suffers when this happens.

Posted By: geof j

i paid 60c per litre for diesel today, i was gobsmacked :x i know UK visitors may think that is cheap, but as a proportion of the average wage here it is far more expensive than the UK.

Posted By: DAC

Hi Geoff, I agree with your comments. Personally speaking, the problem with the Government is that when they are raising 40billion pounds a year under the guise of 'Road Tax' and fuel duty levy, i.e. those that do more miles pay more in fuel taxes as they use the roads more. And you then spend the money on something else; it begs me to ask the question of why they are calling it road tax? The Government has already raised the fuel duty levy by 4pence per litre in the last couple of months; admittedly this was pre-planned from the last budget, but with oil prices rising at the same time, a bit of flexibility in delaying these rises wouldn't have gone a miss. Fuel protests will probably not even make the news, I think that everyone who uses there car to get to work should use our feable public transport system for just one day, that would grind it to a halt and make a bigger headline than a few banners outside a fuel depot.

Posted By: geof j

totally agree, but god forbid if we should do the same,imagine the queues at the bus stops with the service we have here? :lol:

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

DAC, the increase was actually 2p per litre and this had been deferred by the government for 6 months.

Posted By: DAC

Geoff,
I stand corrected.
As of 1 October 2007 effective rates of duty for non-road fuels increased by 2 ppl. These rates are set to be increased by the same percentage as the main road fuels on 1 April 2008 and again on 1 April 2009.
From 1 October 2007 duty rates for unleaded petrol, leaded petrol, aviation gasoline and other heavy oil used as road fuel were increased by the same percentage as the main road fuels.
If you take a look at this graph

so if you put 50 litres of petrol in at the 2007 price, that equates to an extra 35 in tax to the government, obviously you are paying for the petrol with your earnings that you have already been taxed on.

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

DAC, far too much time on your hands. :D I don't disagree but it just makes me laugh - the government puts fuel up 2p per litre and everyone is up in arms about it. When the increase was applied in October fuel went up to about 97p a litre where we are - it is now 1.03 - nobody seems to be shouting about the greedy oil companies and petrol station owners.





Posted By: DAC

Geoff, I remember the BBC Economics reporter, Evan Davis, once saying that when the price of a barrel increases, that it takes up to 6 weeks for that increase to hit the pumps. Unfortunately I think that the problem that we as a nation suffer from is really quite simple, Corporate Greed! Hmm, I'm really quite bored at present!

Posted By: Steve - SJD

Geoff, In fairness though to the oil companies & petrol station owners - roughly 33p per litre doesn't sound too greedy given what they have to do to get the fuel to the pumps. Thankfully due to work i've cut down on my driving - would hate to be on the road everyday with the prices on fuel being what it is. BTW so nobody thinks they're are going mad i'll be moving this to Coffee Shopt Chat as that would be a more appropriate place. :) Cheers Steve

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

Steve, I know what you mean but I also know a guy who owns several petrol stations locally to us and he isn't poor, believe me! Thanks for confirming that you have moved the post by the way - I am easily confused! :oops:

Posted By: Steve - SJD

  • Deb&Geoff wrote:
    I also know a guy who owns several petrol stations locally to us and he isn't poor, believe me!

Probably makes most of his profits on confectionary & drinks :lol:
can't believe some of the prices on that stuff in petrol stations.
Cheers
Steve

Posted By: DAC

    Quote:
  • Probably makes most of his profits on confectionary & drinks
    can't believe some of the prices on that stuff in petrol stations.

At 3.99 for a lousy egg mayo sandwich, I still call that greed. Granted, 33p is acceptible, it's the 67p tax that's a killer.

Posted By: Steve - SJD

  • DAC wrote:
    Granted, 33p is acceptible, it's the 67p tax that's a killer.

Exactly :)
As well as having to find a petrol station that's not been converted to a car wash :roll:
Cheers
Steve

Posted By: Mike jackson

As a sales rep that has called on many a forecourt I know they do not make much of a markup on fuel but the volume helps having said that they would not survive on fuel sales alone. As Steve said it's 33p plit the rest around .70p is tax! That to my mind is simply indefensible over 100% more! We have the dearest fuel around yet we let artics in without any extra payment we are even GIVING AWAY plastic windscreen lenses to help stop side swipes to right hand drive lorries charge them 5:00 each & cut our tax add to that a weekly tax for coming in the country. We have forgotten the art of demonstrating in England lets get it back. :evil: Mike the sagalout.



Posted By: Kwacka

You'll still hear the oil companies complaing that they lose money producing petrol. Not completely untrue, they make huge profits on the chemicals & plastics that they produce - petrol is basically a waste product that we pay to take off their hands. The level of taxation (in the UK) has remained roughly constant over the past couple of decades - as the graph demonstrates. Don't see the relevence of 'last Tory Government' label.

Posted By: DAC

I don't know either, it was from the fuel protest web site from the original link.

Posted By: adyandkaren

From the first website quoted...
    Quote:
  • UPDATE: This morning (10/12/07) Transaction 2007 announced a firm date for the protest. Protests will start Saturday 15th December 2007 at 10:00am.


Posted By: rockjock

Nobody has yet mentioned the costs of developling an oil field and all the ancillary costs to maintain it and keep it producing year in year out. They don't just drill a hole and then start counting the cash. Oh that it were so simple.Just a point for consideration when we shoot them down for their huge profits. Are you all aware of the billions invested by the Majors in alternative energies. Many energy saving technologies would not be so well developed if we waited for whatever government to sponsor the research. Then there's the billions invested in environmental projects all over the world. Granted it was about time that they gave something back. How about all the hospitals, clinics and schools being built by oil companies in third world countries and the improvement of their infrastructures. I'm not saying that they are angels, because after working in the industry for so long I know better. Consider that the UK now has a tax based economy and makes very little revenue from manufacturing, like when we were an industrial power. So I feel that the concession has to come from Westminster. Oh and last but not least it's just not England that is paying high fuel prices, but Northern Ireland and Scotland pay 3p-4p per litre more under the guise of extra transport costs. Although I do agree that we have lost the ability to protest. Rockjock

Posted By: DAC

Not got a single problem with the oil company, they produce the energy that we all need. It's the governments daylight robbery in taxes that causes the greivment.

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

I just don't see the point of the protests. OK, if the government gave in and took the 2p rise off would everyone be happy? Or will people continue protesting until oil companies give up some their their record breaking profits? I think not. I think Rockjock is right - this country does rely on taxation and investment to survive - but that's the way it is - we have no industry left so what else can they do? All the legacy of Mrs Thatch I'm afraid! (awaits the huge barrage of abuse!) :wink:

Posted By: oldsten

Ah!..Just think, if Moses had turned right instead of left, the Jews would have all the oil and the Arabs lots of oranges... :bwink:



Posted By: paterson

The Oil price and eveything related to Oil goes up pro rata. So why is there all this furore about Gas station prices whilst accepting like a lamb that Electricity price rises. Blame OPEC if anybody.

Posted By: DAC

There is a broad collection of opinions which is good, but I think that people might be missing a simple point. The government spend lots of time and money thinking of ways to clober the motorist, easy targets I suppose, but yet they fail to deliver a workable and useable alternative. The trains are a joke, buses are a joke and the roads are at bursting point. Yet they keep trying to spin us a line that if we pay-per-mile, increase taxes, etc etc, that it will all be sorted. For once they should deliver the solution and then take the dollar.

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

But the trains and buses were privatised by a previous government so how do expect them to sort that one out?

Posted By: Elizavet

I have cut down lots on consumption off fuel, I try to stop off at the supermarket on the way home from work, I dont drive around to every shopping centre under the sun at the weekends anymore, I refuse to jump in the car to run my grandson here there and everywhere, I had to walk as a kid and it never done me any harm. I set off a wee bit earlier to get to work and dont spend hours sitting queuing in traffic, I fill up with the same amount every week unless we have somewhere special to go, as soon as the fuel gauge starts dropping low,I watch my car runs and try to stick to refuelling every week at the same time. Sounds boring i know but all my friends at work are impressed and are trying the same thing, easier if you have set journeys every day to work, it makes a big difference to the weekly fuel bill.

Posted By: DAC

I'm not blaming any particular party, but Labour have had over 10 years to sort things out. NHS, Dentists, Education, transport, it's all still a mess and blaming the tories wore a bit thin about 5 years ago. They're all as bad as each other. Maybe the transport system was a privatisation to far, needs to be a national service based on something like the french or japanese have.

Posted By: DAC

I lived in London for 3 years, the transport was fantastic, all day pass for 5, obviously if you looked hard enough you would find faults. Only then Red Ken doubled all the bus, train and tube fares so as to get everyone to register for an Oyster card, that way big brother knows where you all are and exactly where you have been and when. To justify this increase to the paying public, they also raised the congestion charge, by all acounts 70% of the funds raised pay for administration and very little is invested in infrastuture. But as usual the cronies at downing street want to roll this out across the couutry. All wrapped up as 'saving the planet'

Posted By: Elizavet

Congestion charges were planned for Leeds the overhead gantry's were erected , work was to begin on the new tram lines, then it all got dropped and the gantry's came down , it was going to cost to much to implement. :D :D



Posted By: DAC

Leeds is expanding faster than a Sumo's waistline, We visit leeds quite often, it's a real jewel in the northern crown. There are some fantastic eateries and a wonderful choice of modern hotels to stay in. Much rather go to Leeds than London. Good news that they scrapped the tolls idea, many councils are being held to ransom by central governemt over the implementation of road charging, but as Leeds is booming, I think that they probably know that they can call the shots.

Posted By: salopman

agree mike whole heartedly, the trouble is we all moan and groan in the Uk but back down at the slightest thing, take a leaf out of the French they will put a blockade up at the slightest thing and usually win!Just as a matter of interest unleaded in telford is now around 1.02 litre with diesel at some pumps as high as 1.08

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

Dave, I'm not trying to push the blame on to another party but I just wonder what you expect the present government to do with a privatised transport system - there is no way on earth it could be re-nationalised so they really have got their hands tied on this one. I agree that they are all as bad as each other but to be fair a lot of the problems from the previous government are totally unreversible. Geoff.

Posted By: Balconia

Geoff :
[-( [-( [-(
You wrote :
    Quote:
  • I'm not trying to push the blame on to another party

Oh but you are :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And that's all I will say on the matter as we have both been getting on so well :wink: :lol: :lol:

Posted By: Elizavet

  • DAC wrote:
    Leeds is expanding faster than a Sumo's waistline, We visit leeds quite often, it's a real jewel in the northern crown. There are some fantastic eateries and a wonderful choice of modern hotels to stay in. Much rather go to Leeds than London. Good news that they scrapped the tolls idea, many councils are being held to ransom by central governemt over the implementation of road charging, but as Leeds is booming, I think that they probably know that they can call the shots.

The traffic into Leeds has got worse over the last few years, but they are building a huge flyover similar to the one in LImassol , Hopefull to ease congestion, the shops are great as well :D :D and i love all the old buildings and architecture :)

Posted By: DAC

No I'm not blaming any party in particular, it doesn't matter who is in charge as they are all only interested in there own existance. But if blair hadn't had his head so far up George Bush's ar-e, we might have had bit of an improvement on home policy instead of foriegn policy.
Getting back to transport, I suppose if we give them another ten years, they might let the train operators have longer operating contracts so that it is finacialy viable for them to invest in new rolling stock.
thankfully I'm not a politician :D so these answers aren't up to me.
Dave
Stick to the car, that way you don't have to mix with the GP :D :D :D

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

Carol, you know I'm right though deep down, I always am! :wink: :D Seriously though I do tend to take Dave's point more nowadays that they are all as bad as each other. My days as a paid up member of the Labour party are over I'm afraid. Vote Green I say, but don't tell them we have 3 cars between 2 of us and our carbon footprint is the size of a small island!





Posted By: DAC

As you can see from this link, our petrol tax money is being well spent on alternative tarnsport links, not! www.sustrans.org.uk/ They have had to rely on winning a 50 million donation form the National Lottery.

Posted By: journeyman

This is what you pay your hard earned Taxes for folks... http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ Graham

Posted By: Mike jackson

Hi Guys here's a breakdown of the fuel price as at 1.03
Basic cost of fuel 34p
Retailer profit 2.31p
Supplier profit 1p
DUTY 50.35p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VAT 15.34

That means Gordon grabs a total of: 65.69p per lit.
Robbery or what I think that is about 64%
I think a tax rate of 64% is immoral
Mike the sagalout

Posted By: DAC

Hi, You're right, it's disgusting. Taxing petrol so heavily does little to stop us using it, it's a weak excuse to use an everyday commodity to raise taxes. What happens with all the extra revenue that is made when the base fuel costs goes up? I dare say that todays small demonstrations will have no affect whatsoever.

Posted By: DAC

Hi,
By today's news reels it seems that yesterday's fuel protest fizzled out with little support.
Possible Conspircies

1. People are probably fully aware that anyone who turns up will be captured on video by the police and there future movements, phone calls, internet searches and emails tracked and monitored by the 'men in black suits' from 'Area 52.' Any further movement from the 'middle of the road' would see them branded as a threat to the nation and they would be whisked off in the middle of the night and put on a plane to an allied country for further questioning.
2. Alternatively, it's nearly christmas and everyone was therefore to busy out shopping, bad timing on the 'organiser' front.
This weeks episode of spooks and last nights CSI were much more interesting!!!
:D :D :D

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

Number 2 sounds very plausible. To be honest though despite the fact that I don't agree with the protestors if it meant getting out of going Chritmas shopping I would happily join them. Was theory number 1 a result of you watching too many episodes of spooks?? :D

Posted By: Charnwood Fox

  • DAC wrote:
    2. Alternatively, it's nearly christmas and everyone was therefore to busy out shopping,

DAMN! Why didn't I think of that?!

Posted By: DAC

Geoff,
    Quote:
  • Was theory number 1 a result of you watching too many episodes of spooks??

Well it is based on a true story, isn't it??

Posted By: Deb&Geoff

Pretty much so I would say - maybe some of the names have been changed but almost certainly close to the truth. In my head anyway! :-k

Posted By: Steve - SJD

Hi, Apologies if i've asked this before but..... i've always wondered who is responsible for checking that the actual amount of petrol that comes out of the pump is correct?? If a petrol station was so inclined would it be possible for them to alter the amount the comes out - even if it was only by a small amount per transaction? It's one of those questions that rattles around with all the other useless questions in my head :) Have to say I prefer Cypriot petrol stations for two reasons really: 1) It's not as cold when you get out of the car 8) 2) They do the filling at some stations. I'm not sure if anyone else in the UK has the petrol stations with the spikes that shoot out of the floor? They have just been installed in a petrol station not too far away from us. For those that try and drive off without paying the spikes shoot up and puncture your tyres thus preventing them from going any further - hope they don't make a mistake though :shock: Cheers Steve

Posted By: DAC

Hi,
    Quote:
  • Apologies if i've asked this before but..... i've always wondered who is
    responsible for checking that the actual amount of petrol that comes
    out of the pump is correct??

I've read something similar about this before, but unfortunately I can't remember the answer! I did also read that if you squeeze the trigger more gently that it stops the fuel from frothing up and you therefore get a tiny amount more.
Asda do a credit card that gives you 2p off every litre bought at there petrol stations, as long as you clear the bill when it comes in your quids in.
On the subject of Road Fund Licence and petrol tax being reinvested on the countys road network. I had to make a 90 mile journey up the A1 today, a journey that should have taken no more than 90 minutes actually took me 4 hours, I could have flown to Larnaca in the same time. A couple of unfortunate accidents on a major road and half the country grinds to a halt.
Dave

Posted By: Steve - SJD

Dave, Thanks for the reply! Heard about the crash on the M62 - sounded bad and took a long time to clear so seemed a bad morning on the roads. Cheers Steve

Posted By: DAC

Here's another Rant,
Road Tax
As it is christmas and lots of places will be shut during the festive period and we won't be at home on the day that it runs out; yesterday, I decided to make sure that I remained a good law abiding citizen by renewing my Road Tax in plenty of time. Yesterday being the 20 Dec 07, I paid my 205 for a 12 month tax disc and when I looked at it I saw that it expires on 30 Nov 08! You guessed it, ripped off by 20 days, how many millions of pounds do they make by stealing days from us? I'm positive that in the year 2007 that they can make a machine that prints off the new disc with the days date on it.
Dave


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