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Posted By: mouse

Typical back stabbing Tories. They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.



Posted By: nhowarth



Posted By: Mr Tibbs

Paywalled.
The 48th letter I believe. From Owen Paterson MP:
" Dear Sir Graham,
I write to inform you that I no longer have confidence in the Prime Minister. It would be a travesty if the democratic verdict of the 2016 referendum – the largest in British history – were not delivered, yet the Prime Minister’s proposed “deal” is so bad that it cannot be considered anything other than a betrayal of clear manifesto promises.
These broken promises typify more than two years of poor Government decision-making. It was a mistake not to begin intense preparations for leaving on WTO terms the moment the result was delivered, approaching the negotiations with a stronger hand, positioned to walk away without a deal and consequently much more likely to secure a good one.
It was a mistake for our EU negotiations to be led by a career civil servant with no business experience when the Government had on hand a vastly experienced international trade negotiator, Crawford Falconer.
It was a mistake to create a new Brexit Department only to keep two secretaries of state so in the dark that they had to resign over a policy one would have thought they were overseeing. Trying to bounce Cabinet ministers into supporting her White Paper on the Future Relationship before they had a chance to consider it fully – as the Prime Minister did at Chequers – is simply an intolerable way for a Prime Minister to govern.
It was a mistake to treat Brexit miserably as a problem to be solved rather than an exciting opportunity to be grasped. The UK is the world’s fifth largest economy. We are a key Nato member, a permanent UN Security Council member, a Commonwealth realm, a nuclear power.
We are the source of the English language, the common law and occupy the ideal time-zone for global trade. Yet from the outset we have approached these negotiations as a feeble and unworthy supplicant. As Falconer said, future historians will ask in exasperation: “Why were we so negative about our future?”
These mistakes have eroded trust in the Government, to the point where I and many others can no longer take the Prime Minister at her word. Almost two dozen times, she has ruled out membership of the Customs Union, yet the Withdrawal Agreement’s “single customs territory” sees us locked into it in all but name.
She has repeatedly said “no deal is better than a bad deal”, but it is clear her objective was to secure a deal at any cost.
The backstop would see the whole UK remain in a customs union with the EU, with Northern Ireland in the Customs Union and Single Market. This could see new internal UK borders in breach of the Belfast Agreement’s Principle of Consent and the requirement to consult the Northern Ireland Assembly.
It breaches the Acts of Union 1800. The UK would not have the unilateral right to end the arrangement. We could be locked into it indefinitely as a permanent rule-taker while paying £39 billion for the privilege.
European customs experts regard the Withdrawal Agreement’s customs arrangements as woefully out of date, proposing physical stamps and paper systems not used for nearly 20 years. They are so vague that it would be impossible to put them into practice.
Eleventh-hour “reassurances” on this issue are mere warm words if the legal text is unchanged. In any case, there is much more besides the backstop making the Withdrawal Agreement unacceptable.
No amount of tinkering will yield a majority in Parliament for this deal. The Government needs to consider more boldly the possible alternatives which might command that support. President Tusk offered just such an alternative in March: a wide-ranging, zero-tariff free trade agreement.
That deal foundered on the question of the Northern Ireland border, but existing techniques and processes can resolve this. From my October meeting with Michel Barnier, I know that a willingness exists on the EU side to explore these possibilities more fully. The meeting also confirmed that Tusk’s offer is still on the table.
Throughout this process, I have sought to support the Government. The conclusion is now inescapable that the Prime Minister is the blockage to the wide-ranging free trade agreement offered by Tusk which would be in the best interests of the country and command the support of Parliament.
I, therefore, have no confidence in Theresa May as Prime Minister and Leader of the Conservative Party and ask that you hold a vote of no confidence."


Posted By: kanebill

  • mouse wrote:
    Typical back stabbing Tories.
    They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.

Your best joke yet,

Posted By: mouse

  • kanebill wrote:
    • mouse wrote:
      Typical back stabbing Tories.
      They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.

    Your best joke yet,

You should watch " Carry on at the House of Commons."

Posted By: Blossom

Couldn't organise a P up in a brewery comes to mind, and Im referring to every party in the commons.

Posted By: mouse

  • Blossom wrote:
    Couldn't organise a P up in a brewery comes to mind, and Im referring to every party in the commons.

Never a truer sentence.

Posted By: cansweet

I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.





Posted By: scottie

  • cansweet wrote:
    I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

Come on , who is there to replace her . lol

Posted By: Hudswell

Apparently no one...as demonstrated by the vote of confidence...

Posted By: cansweet

  • scottie wrote:
    • cansweet wrote:
      I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

    Come on , who is there to replace her . lol

Why did the idiots bring the vote of no confidence then so? Obviously thought they could muster the no's to remove her and had some version of a replacement in mind. I'd love to know what was on Cameron's mind when this debacle was first brought up, or who had brainwashed him? One thing's for sure, people will count the cost in their daily lives for many the years to come but some still cannot comprehend that fact YET.
One thing I can't understand though, why did she go and say she will not lead the Tories into the next general election when after winning the vote she couldn't be challenged for another year anyway?
Now Big Thick Boris, let's see what you're made of? As if we don't know already

Posted By: Kwacka

  • cansweet wrote:
    I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

One third of the parliamentary party have voted against her - how has she "kicked their butts down the road"?
Watching Newsnight tonight, and there are people saying that she's stronger and will be able to get a better deal from the EU! :shock:

Posted By: cansweet

  • Kwacka wrote:
    • cansweet wrote:
      I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

    One third of the parliamentary party have voted against her - how has she "kicked their butts down the road"?

I guess it's because the other two thirds didn't 8) Now Kwaka, that wasn't too difficult, was it?

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

She was strongly tipped from the outset to win. Does it matter though? May’s spent 2 years negotiating a deal which appears to be a dead duck. It would be lazarus-like for it to get voted through. Then again.............politics. :-s

Posted By: Hudswell

  • Kwacka wrote:
    • cansweet wrote:
      I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

    One third of the parliamentary party have voted against her - how has she "kicked their butts down the road"?
    Watching Newsnight tonight, and there are people saying that she's stronger and will be able to get a better deal from the EU! :shock:

She increased her voting majority from the 199 In the conservative leadership contest..Mogg and the like, including the MSN can spin as much as they like....she kicked butt..



Posted By: Kwacka

  • Hudswell wrote:
    • Kwacka wrote:
      • cansweet wrote:
        I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

      One third of the parliamentary party have voted against her - how has she "kicked their butts down the road"?/quote]
      Watching Newsnight tonight, and there are people saying that she's stronger and will be able to get a better deal from the EU! :shock:

    • Hudswell wrote:
      She increased her voting majority from the 199 In the conservative leadership contest..Mogg and the like, including the MSN can spin as much as they like....she kicked butt..

    She didn't get elected leader, she got the job by default after everybody else dropped out.
    If you cast your mind back, Thatcher got the largest number of votes in a leadership contest rather than a vote of confidence (20 against 152) she dropped out of the second round because her position was considered untenable).
    Sorry, I only read the UK media and the general consensus is:
    From the right - Daily Express ' very damaging result '
    and The Spectator " Victory? No, yesterday’s result weakens May’s authority still further "
    and The Sun: THE coup to oust Theresa May yesterday exploded the most vicious Tory civil war over Europe yet - leaving Cabinet ministers fearing the party had started a historic break-up.
    to the centrist-left Guardian "Theresa May defeats Tory coup over Brexit deal but is left damaged".
    I've now taken a look at MSN, but found no mention of Theresa May so I can't understand why you brought that up.

Posted By: cansweet

Time now for Teresa to go and do some Christmas shopping in Ikea. First thing on her list should be a new cabinet :)

Posted By: Hudswell

  • Kwacka wrote:
    • Hudswell wrote:
      • Kwacka wrote:
        • cansweet wrote:
          I'm glad to see she's kicked their butts down the road. Fair play to her, warming to this lady.

        One third of the parliamentary party have voted against her - how has she "kicked their butts down the road"?/quote]
        Watching Newsnight tonight, and there are people saying that she's stronger and will be able to get a better deal from the EU! :shock:

      • Hudswell wrote:
        She increased her voting majority from the 199 In the conservative leadership contest..Mogg and the like, including the MSN can spin as much as they like....she kicked butt..

      She didn't get elected leader, she got the job by default after everybody else dropped out.
      If you cast your mind back, Thatcher got the largest number of votes in a leadership contest rather than a vote of confidence (20 against 152) she dropped out of the second round because her position was considered untenable).
      Sorry, I only read the UK media and the general consensus is:
      From the right - Daily Express ' very damaging result '
      and The Spectator " Victory? No, yesterday’s result weakens May’s authority still further "
      and The Sun: THE coup to oust Theresa May yesterday exploded the most vicious Tory civil war over Europe yet - leaving Cabinet ministers fearing the party had started a historic break-up.
      to the centrist-left Guardian "Theresa May defeats Tory coup over Brexit deal but is left damaged".
      I've now taken a look at MSN, but found no mention of Theresa May so I can't understand why you brought that up.

    I did mean the Main Stream Media...Mrs May defied those that would wish to bring her down and she did it by a large margin...but that doesn't play into the hands of the political pundits who need to make news rather than report it...when interviewed Mogg Clearly had his tail between his legs and Boris was in a real sulk...

Posted By: Kwacka

  • Hudswell wrote:

    I did mean the Main Stream Media...Mrs May defied those that would wish to bring her down and she did it by a large margin...but that doesn't play into the hands of the political pundits who need to make news rather than report it...when interviewed Mogg Clearly had his tail between his legs and Boris was in a real sulk...

So where do you get your information, if it's not from any of the UK media sources?
You clearly don't trust anybody writing for the D. Mail end of the spectrum up to the Guardian end, nor the TV channels - except possibly Breitbart London ?

Posted By: DAC

  • mouse wrote:

    They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.

She won't get anything extra of any significance from the EU as they know that she doesn't have the fibre required to walk-away. It's pretty much the exact same scenario that caused Yanis Varoufakis to resign as he knew that his endeavours to attempt to restructure the Greek debt would always be fruitless as they knew that Alexis Tsipras, "talked the talk to the Greek electorate but he wasn't prepared to walk the walk from the ECB/IMF/EU.
A very interest read...
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/adults-in-the-room/

Posted By: Kwacka

  • DAC wrote:
    • mouse wrote:

      They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.

    She won't get anything extra of any significance from the EU as they know that she doesn't have the fibre required to walk-away. It's pretty much the exact same scenario that caused Yanis Varoufakis to resign as he knew that his endeavours to attempt to restructure the Greek debt would always be fruitless as they knew that Alexis Tsipras, "talked the talk to the Greek electorate but he wasn't prepared to walk the walk from the ECB/IMF/EU.
    A very interest read...
    https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/adults-in-the-room/

](*,)
](*,)
It shows what power the UK has compared to the other 27 nations of the EU.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WAS IN CHARGE!
From the onset, the EU held all the cards. They basically said "Brexit means brexit".
Forget all the rubbish you were told about sorting it out in over coffee in an afternoon. Forget all you were told about "they need us more than we need them". Forget German cars, French wines, Cyprus halloumi, and the rest - they're insignificant.
Also forget the queue of nations getting ready for making trade deals - they don't happen overnight.
Forget the WTO rules, the UK was a founder member but is now a member because it is part of the EU. When it leaves the UK leaves the WTO as well, at least 20 countries (reportedly including the USA and China) have told the WTO that they will be against 'fast track' membership for Britain. and no country trades on WTO rules only.
Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

Posted By: Mr Tibbs





Posted By: kanebill

Currently it would require 55 countries to not support the UK joining the WTO in it's own right to stop the application being successful. edit: The UK has already begun the process in time to make a seamless transition.

Posted By: DAC

  • Kwacka wrote:

    Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

Posted By: Kwacka

  • DAC wrote:
    • Kwacka wrote:

      Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

    Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

Hmmm.
Yanis Varoufakis: How I became an erratic Marxist (The Grauniad, 18/02/2015).
So might it be fair to say that your criticisms of Marxist theory don't hold up to the arguments of "one of the smartest economic brains in the EU"?
How about when he writes
    Quote:
  • Of course I may be wrong. Even so, I believe it is a cause worth pursuing. The danger is not that we shall aim too high and miss; the real danger is that we train our eyes on the floor and end up there. Minutes after the inauguration of DiEM25 in Berlin, filled with adrenalin and hope, my colleagues and I came across an older German activist who looked unimpressed. ‘This movement is doomed,’ he told us gloomily.
    ‘So what the hell are you doing here?’ my slightly peeved colleague asked him.
    ‘I want to be around the people who will have to pick up the pieces when the whole edifice comes tumbling down,’ he replied.
    That’s a good enough reason to keep alive, across Europe, the small flame lit by the people of Greece during the spring of 2015..

(You might recognize this as the final words of the text of the book)

Posted By: sugarray1955

  • DAC wrote:
    • Kwacka wrote:

      Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

    Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

:bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: And what would the taxation issue be that I need to sort out, pray tell me :roll: :roll: :roll:

Posted By: DAC

  • sugarray1955 wrote:
    • DAC wrote:
      • Kwacka wrote:

        Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

      Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

    :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile: And what would the taxation issue be that I need to sort out, pray tell me :roll: :roll: :roll:

I don't recall that I was actually talking or referring to you but as you stuck your nose in anyway, here goes...
http://www.easterncyprus.com/viewtopic.php?t=102356

Posted By: DAC

  • Kwacka wrote:
    • DAC wrote:
      • Kwacka wrote:

        Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

      Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

    Hmmm.
    Yanis Varoufakis: How I became an erratic Marxist (The Grauniad, 18/02/2015).
    So might it be fair to say that your criticisms of Marxist theory don't hold up to the arguments of "one of the smartest economic brains in the EU"?
    How about when he writes
      Quote:
    • Of course I may be wrong. Even so, I believe it is a cause worth pursuing. The danger is not that we shall aim too high and miss; the real danger is that we train our eyes on the floor and end up there. Minutes after the inauguration of DiEM25 in Berlin, filled with adrenalin and hope, my colleagues and I came across an older German activist who looked unimpressed. ‘This movement is doomed,’ he told us gloomily.
      ‘So what the hell are you doing here?’ my slightly peeved colleague asked him.
      ‘I want to be around the people who will have to pick up the pieces when the whole edifice comes tumbling down,’ he replied.
      That’s a good enough reason to keep alive, across Europe, the small flame lit by the people of Greece during the spring of 2015..

    (You might recognize this as the final words of the text of the book)

I have always said that if the UK is to remain within the EU Project then that should be as a full member with acceptance of the single currency as a signal of our full commitment to it. However, I personally believe that the British people will not want this so TBH it's a non-starter. The only way for the project to survive is for the Federal State to be born and for all states within to become subservient to Brussels, but again, and not just with Britain, the majority of the member states are just in the project so as to take more than they give and I would hazard a guess that many of the smaller countries will also not want to cede power to Brussels. Politicians are in for themselves and power is more important than sense and as Yanis said, 'You can't negotiate restructuring your debts with a creditor that doesn't actually want their money back'. The power was more important than the money and forcing the citizens of Greece into a never ending cycle of poverty was better than allowing Greece to repay its debts over a longer and more affordable timeline. In private of the Troika members agreed with him and promised him positive negotiations but then when sat at the table they all stabbed him in the back.

Posted By: sugarray1955

  • DAC wrote:
    • Kwacka wrote:

      Yanis Varoufakis? Isn't he one of the pinko, socialist, commie types?

    Also one of the smartest economic brains in the EU, so much so that they slandered him as being a stooge of George Soros so as to discredit him as he was highlighting all of their failures . But you'd know that as you've read the book, right? Anyway, Isn't there a future Taxation issue for you expats to be sorting out?

So DAC, evidently you have a very poor memory :roll: see highlighted text. The reason I poked my nose in is because I regard myself as an expat, or do you know something different :roll: and because I am an expat and you stated that "you expats" have a taxation issue to sort out, I thought would ask exactly what that issue was, as you evidently think that all expats in receipt of a pension need to sort this issue out. Now if you had posted correctly in the first place (maybe too much to ask) and stated it was expats with government service pensions then I would not have felt the need to stick my nose in as you so eloquently put it. As my pension is not a government service pension then I am of the "you expats" that does not have an issue to sort out. Anyway just off to check my dwinding bank account and cry myself to sleep (not) :lol: :lol: :lol:



Posted By: Woodrow Why?at

Although paying that extra €7 every three years might just tip you over the edge, ray!! :wink: :lol: :lol:

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn tables Theresa May no-confidence motion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46599895

Posted By: cansweet

She'll win that vote too. Too many politicians have only their MP career to bring in money and they have no intention of voting for an election, regardless of party.

Posted By: Kwacka

  • cansweet wrote:
    She'll win that vote too. Too many politicians have only their MP career to bring in money and they have no intention of voting for an election, regardless of party.

Of course she'll win a vote (if it actually gets to a vote) - even Rees-Mogg has said that he's a 'loyal Conservative' and back her - in other words he's content to destroy the country but not the party.

Posted By: Woodrow Why?at

  • Kwacka wrote:
    • cansweet wrote:
      She'll win that vote too. Too many politicians have only their MP career to bring in money and they have no intention of voting for an election, regardless of party.

    Of course she'll win a vote (if it actually gets to a vote) - even Rees-Mogg has said that he's a 'loyal Conservative' and back her - in other words he's content to destroy the country but not the party.

Hasn't that always been the basic doctrine of many Tories.......'Party before Country'! 8)

Posted By: devil

  • Woodrow Why?at wrote:

    Hasn't that always been the basic doctrine of many Tories.......'Party before Country'! 8)

No! Me before Constituency before Party before Country! :cry: :cry:

Posted By: Woodrow Why?at

  • devil wrote:
    • Woodrow Why?at wrote:

      Hasn't that always been the basic doctrine of many Tories.......'Party before Country'! 8)

    No! Me before Constituency before Party before Country! :cry: :cry:

Sorry, I stand corrected!! :oops: :lol: :lol:
Seasons Greetings, devil! :)





Posted By: Smoke

And definitely before plebs Seasons Greetings to all Smoke

Posted By: romatarot

  • DAC wrote:
    • mouse wrote:

      They could have at least waited to see if she could have got something extra from the EU.

    She won't get anything extra of any significance from the EU as they know that she doesn't have the fibre required to walk-away. It's pretty much the exact same scenario that caused Yanis Varoufakis to resign as he knew that his endeavours to attempt to restructure the Greek debt would always be fruitless as they knew that Alexis Tsipras, "talked the talk to the Greek electorate but he wasn't prepared to walk the walk from the ECB/IMF/EU.
    A very interest read...
    https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/adults-in-the-room/

Finally a fellow Varoufakis admirer! What a wonderful solution on the table. As you've so accurately demonstrated your full understanding of the book (unlike those who just quote the last sentence lol), the most difficult thing to accept is being in debt to those rascals.
By now we should all be aware that the EU is not an elected parliament, but run by those who love drowning the rest of us in paperwork. It is a business club trying to fool the rest of us it is a democracy. It is and was and always will be a dictatorship/club.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgLp0RqmOFM
Once these thieves have conned their victims into accepting non-existent wealth (fiat currency), they've layed eggs within their victim. Much like a wasp they consume their caterpillar from within.
Deal? With what leverage? You've already exposed your underbelly .......
I suspect that TM's next 'move' will be to Switzerland


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