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Posted By: spanner

  • Mr Tibbs wrote:
    • spanner wrote:
      • clive of payia wrote:
        Back in 1975 we all thought we were joining the “Common Market”, a trading bloc of independent democratic European nations; looked a good deal then didn’t it.

      Were were already in the "Common Market", the referendum in 1975 was asking if we wanted to leave it.

    Indeed: post #7. :wink: Or to be pedantic - did we want to stay in, after Labour's "renegotiation"? Deja vu?

The problem is that people tend not to read all the posts, or they just don't digest what they say.



Posted By: Tsiakkas

If the UK votes NO and decides to leave the EU then it will almost certainly impact on the annual increase to our state pension and may impact on our access to state healthcare here in Cyprus. I appreciate that there will be many other factors to take into consideration Please note that however that UK Expats who have lived abroad for less than 15 years are entitled to vote in the forthcoming referendum.You need to register at the Gov.uk website. Perhaps Nigel could be persuaded to encourage us all to register and vote to ensure we have a say in the outcome!! He has more influence than many of us!

Posted By: devil

It is useless to speculate what pm the results that may or may not happen on an event that may or may not happen!

Posted By: Hudswell

I tend to agree with Devil on this one but saying that I would think that there would be little change to the "status" of retired UK expats in Cyprus due to the double taxation agreements that were in place prior to, and remain in place after Cyprus joined the EU, this also applies to the "export" of the U.K. Public sector Pension and state pension tax free and including yearly increases if applicable. Being a youngster myself I currently pay for my medical insurance anyway but if I understand correctly prior to Cyprus joining the EU there were reciprocal agreements in place anyway for those that had reached state retirement age, which would almost certainly continue. The EU is in dire need of reform...if only to return its roots to what it should be....a Common Market, not a federation of states ruled by the centre, if Mr Cameron and the UK can be the driving force behind this then I certainly am all for it...expat or not the current T&Cs under which the EU operates are not healthy and I for one would vote no if there is not reform.

Posted By: Byker

  • devil wrote:
    It is useless to speculate what pm the results that may or may not happen on an event that may or may not happen!

I think it's fair to assume the referendum will happen.

Posted By: Hudswell

Yes it will, I have no doubt about that.

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • Tsiakkas wrote:
    If the UK votes NO and decides to leave the EU then it will almost certainly impact on the annual increase to our state pension and may impact on our access to state healthcare here in Cyprus.

With respect, I think that's what's referred to as scaremongering. :wink:

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • Byker wrote:
    • devil wrote:
      It is useless to speculate what pm the results that may or may not happen on an event that may or may not happen!

    I think it's fair to assume the referendum will happen.

Given events it's difficult to imagine a scenario where it won't.
Personally I have little faith in the success of the "Out" campaign. The "In" side deployed their considerable assets and won in 1975 and I have little doubt they shall do so again.
Well, that's not strictly true IIRC. We were actually asked to vote on whether we wanted to stay in after an ever-so-slight veneer of Labour party "renegotiation". There was no question originally of asking us whether we wished to join "The Common Market" or not.





Posted By: devil

  • Byker wrote:

    I think it's fair to assume the referendum will happen.

You misread my post: I did not question whether it would happen. I questioned on a) the effects of a vote to leave and b) whether the vote would be to leave or not. I still say it's a waste of breath to speculate on either.

Posted By: kanebill

From the House of Lords yesterday: It appears there will be a bill to allow those expats away for over 15 years to be allowed to vote in the EU referendum. ( In Conservatives manifesto apparently)

Posted By: LynSab

As a country has never before exited the EU, it is an unknown as to what will happen afterwards.... The reforms that Cameron is asking for ( though not yet officially listed ) appear to not be agreed to by Brussels ( why would they ) therefore I would expect more voters to join the OUT campaign IF reforms aren't forthcoming... Currently paddy power has the odds at 1/4 to stay IN and 5/2 to EXIT. IMO this referendum vote is far more important than who wins the next general election.... Newspapers are dabbling in all sorts of polls ATM connected to the referendum... It's going to be a long year ahead, I hope if the reforms aren't forthcoming, that they bring the vote forward.... many of us may well be affected by an OUT vote, but in what way no one knows, many Brits live in the UK but own property in the EU, including me, we want to know how an OUT vote could affect us too....

Posted By: Kwacka

Unfortunately it's been an unfortunate few decades with the 'left-wing media' feeding the gullible horror stories about curved bananas, the EU & terrorists not being deported, laws 'being forced on the UK, 75% of UK laws now being passed by the EU, the EU is unelected and undemocratic, failure to sign off EU accounts, and other such lies and distortions. The bit that keeps cropping up lately is that it costs the UK X pounds a day with no mention of how much it earns through trade. Compare with the argument supporting the the Civil List costs X pounds "but look how much it brings in through tourism". The EU provides the UK with much of its trade (40% of GDP, IIRC), but only 3% of the EU's GDP, and they will 'automatically' retain that through free-market agreements, like Switzerland and Norway, but fail to realise that those two countries have to obey EU legislationto export their goods/services but, unlike the UK at the moment, have no part in the legislation introducing such regulations. In return for allowing its goods to be sold in the EU, Norway (population 5 million) paid 550 million euros to the EU. Britain (pop. 65 million) would have paid 7.15 (US) billion euros IF they were allowed to join. Hopefully between now and the the referendum there will be an opportunity for a more balanced view to be introduced.

Posted By: clive of payia

Iceland said goodbye to the EU and prospered. Their sky hasn't fallen in. https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/127983 This is why the EU fanatics are worried that if the Uk leaves and the other nations see it take off, which it will, the EU is then finished.

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • clive of payia wrote:
    Iceland said goodbye to the EU and prospered. Their sky hasn't fallen in.
    https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/127983
    This is why the EU fanatics are worried that if the Uk leaves and the other nations see it take off, which it will, the EU is then finished.

I am all for leaving, and will vote accordingly. However, the concept that anyone who leaves the EU must be seen to (spitefully) perish is a matter of concern. I had imagined what might happen to Greece if they bit the bullet. Nevertheless, the trade balance suggests it would be a case of cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Posted By: LynSab

  • clive of payia wrote:
    Iceland said goodbye to the EU and prospered. Their sky hasn't fallen in.
    https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/127983
    This is why the EU fanatics are worried that if the Uk leaves and the other nations see it take off, which it will, the EU is then finished.

Iceland have never been in it, they just dropped their membership bid....



Posted By: Kwacka

  • clive of payia wrote:
    Iceland said goodbye to the EU and prospered. Their sky hasn't fallen in.
    https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/127983
    This is why the EU fanatics are worried that if the Uk leaves and the other nations see it take off, which it will, the EU is then finished.

    Quote:
  • Iceland definitively dropped its EU membership bid on Thursday (12 March), nearly six years after having made the demand.

Quite a spin on requesting negotiations to join the EU.
BTW, aren't the 'EU fanatics' the ones with the biggest mouths, e.g. the 'Farangists', who can't seem to open their mouth without spreading lies & distortions?

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • Kwacka wrote:
    BTW, aren't the 'EU fanatics' the ones with the biggest mouths, e.g. the 'Farangists', who can't seem to open their mouth without spreading lies & distortions?

Yes, they seem to be learning how to do it from their peers very well. Four million votes? Not that it did them much good of course.
Anyway, IMHO Plevneliev and Iohannis's rants are far more incendiary. :wink:

Posted By: clive of payia

You’ve probably heard all the arguments regarding the pros and cons regarding the UK’s continued membership, or not, of the European Union, (EU). But it was as long ago as 1975 the last time the UK had a referendum on membership, and the EU has morphed into something quite, quite different since then. Back in 1975 we all thought we were joining the “Common Market”, a trading bloc of independent democratic European nations; looked a good deal then didn’t it. We now know to our cost that successive governments lied to us. Over the intervening years the Common Market many of us voted for has turned into a political undemocratic bloc run by un-elected bureaucrats we cannot get rid of. And it hell bent on turning itself into a Federal State, which like the euro currency before it will fail. Not such a good idea now is it to many of us. So it’s up to the British voter armed with our ballot papers to determine which direction our country takes – and make no mistake this is our last chance under free and democratic rules. Remember the EU politburo just doesn’t respect people’s democratic votes of “No” and they bullied them into voting again until they got it “right”. This happened to Ireland, France and Holland over the proposed EU Constitution where democratic elections said “No”, so the EU Apparatchik just reissued it as the Lisbon Treaty that didn’t need a people vote. What price democracy you ask! In a nutshell the questions to addressed and answered as far as I am concerned are: One. Do I wish my descendants to live in an independent and democratic UK where the elected local and national lawmakers are directly responsible to the citizens of the UK and all laws are made in the UK Parliament? If your answer is “YES” then you should vote to leave the EU. Two. Do I want the UK to continue paying EU £55 million per day to the EU? Money could be more prudently spent at home on our own priorities such as the elderly, NHS, schools etc. If your answer is “NO” then vote to leave the EU. Yes, we do get some of this money back but the EU tells us what we can do with it – and it’s our own money for God’s sake! What a scam! Three. Do you consider the Euro has been a success? Remember if we stay in the EU, the UK will be forced to join the Euro zone eventually, the EU Presidency has clearly stated this. Then down will come the City of London, that is 20% of the UK’s Gross Domestic Product and with it the security of our private pensions. In a Federal Europe, the UK’s OAP pot will no doubt eventually be shared out amongst other EU member states. Many of the southern EU countries have already plundered their citizens old age pension funds. Got to be another NO and Brexit. Four. Has the EU’s Open Door – Free Movement, policy been a success? Are you happy to see hundreds of thousands of non-EU economic migrants pouring into Europe? Although the UK thankfully had the good sense to opt out of the Schengen Agreement, once these migrants have been given EU passports in Germany, they can come to the UK in even greater numbers with their children and families and there is nothing the UK can do about it except leave the EU and manage our own borders and regulate who comes in. No brainer this one surely! You have to vote to leave the EU to save your decedents being at the mercy of Islam, whom will eventually demand, on racial discrimination grounds, priority for housing, schooling, NHS etc. Five. The EU courts now have supremacy over UK courts. If we don’t leave the EU the final laws the EU will impose on the UK will mean the loss of our centuries old legal safeguards such as Habeas Corpus, a writ to ensure a person’s detention is legally valid; protection against illegal imprisonment by state. Also lost will be Magna Carta widely viewed as one of the most important legal documents in history for the preservation of democracy. The EU will impose on the UK, without a chance to vote on it, Napoleonic Law the reverse of English Law. In the UK the state is the servant of its citizens, in Europe citizens are servants of the state. Six. If the UK stays in the EU eventually Roman Catholicism will become the official religion of the European Union. Events like the start of the world wars and older conflicts such as Waterloo will be dropped from calendars and only European religious and socialist holidays will be celebrated or remembered. Smaller EU countries, that the EU can politically bully, such as Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Finland look to the UK to take the lead; for if the UK votes to leave they will no doubt follow. All continents on this earth, even Antarctica have growth except one, yes you guessed it Europe. Finally, if the forthcoming referendum had been about the UK joining the EU would you vote to join? I bet you wouldn’t. Incidentally, if the EU in its present state tried to join the EU it would dramatically fail; it could not meet the requirements of the acquis communautaire, the accumulated legislation, legal acts, and court decisions that constitute the body of European Union Law. I have however lived long enough to expect the unexpected and there is now a good chance that the EU Presidency, not wishing to suffer the acute embarrassment of a possible 70/30-referendum result to leave the EU, might just act before the UK referendum on the words all three have uttered only very recently that “the UK no longer needs the EU” and negotiate with the UK the same, or nearly the same status as the other European countries not signed up to the Lisbon Treaty such as Norway and Switzerland. Thus taking the UK back to democracy and the Common Market conditions we thought we voted for in 1975. This would probably be fine with Germany and France. The remainder of the smaller EU countries would just be bullied into accepting it.

Posted By: bromerzz

I agree with your comments Clive. Despite living here in Cyprus for 12 years if given the opportunity to VOTE, I would 100% vote YES to leaving the EU. I really think any negative concerns about being a Non EU citizen, specifically UK Citizen, in Cyprus are really overplayed. Not just the last chance to likely have an EU IN/OUT referendum but also probably the last chance before the demograph of peoples origins comes into play and further influences the situation that UK will have lost its roots in favour of a multi cultural society with the White Caucasian Northern European in the minority.

Posted By: spanner

  • clive of payia wrote:
    Back in 1975 we all thought we were joining the “Common Market”, a trading bloc of independent democratic European nations; looked a good deal then didn’t it.

Were were already in the "Common Market", the referendum in 1975 was asking if we wanted to leave it.

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • spanner wrote:
    • clive of payia wrote:
      Back in 1975 we all thought we were joining the “Common Market”, a trading bloc of independent democratic European nations; looked a good deal then didn’t it.

    Were were already in the "Common Market", the referendum in 1975 was asking if we wanted to leave it.

Indeed: post #7. :wink: Or to be pedantic - did we want to stay in, after Labour's "renegotiation"? Deja vu?

Posted By: Mr Tibbs

  • spanner wrote:
    • Mr Tibbs wrote:
      • spanner wrote:
        • clive of payia wrote:
          Back in 1975 we all thought we were joining the “Common Market”, a trading bloc of independent democratic European nations; looked a good deal then didn’t it.

        Were were already in the "Common Market", the referendum in 1975 was asking if we wanted to leave it.

      Indeed: post #7. :wink: Or to be pedantic - did we want to stay in, after Labour's "renegotiation"? Deja vu?

    The problem is that people tend not to read all the posts, or they just don't digest what they say.


Haravghi and Daily Mail readers? :D




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