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Posted By: spurs

  • pantheman wrote:
    • Andrew Brooks wrote:
      I agree with Shedman's reasoning to an extent but Pan's suggestion of 150k 'digging in' against a professional army with air support is wishful thinking at best, imo of course.

    Yeah, you made my day, thanks I needed a good laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol:
    The events of '74 are no comparison to what is today. Turkey had a clear path into Cyprus with virtually no resistance. Yes, they could easily have taken it when there is no one to stop you.
    There are many reasons for this, but feel free to research them.
    If you think, trying to remove 150k dug in soldiers defending their own country is wishful thinking, I don't think you understand modern warfare.
    As I said, Afganistan and Iraq are living proof. The kicked the Russians ass alright.
    Anyway, we have gone way of thread.
.. :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Ha ha ha Profesional army........check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNaPDpaJOz0



Posted By: panayiota

We all know when living in Cyprus that you can get many different answers to the same question from people and usually you live with it.but i need to know where to get an answer that is 100% accurate and can show to any official body and they say o.k.The question is this;I am Britsh Cypriot and my Husband British.our son is 16 and he wants to get an ID card .if we apply for him we have been told he will have to go in the army for 2 years.But we were told before that this applyys only of the father is a British cypriot.Then we were told recently that the law has now changed to children of Bc mothers.where can i find out the true facts.Even if this is true can he be forced to go? any answers appriciated.

Posted By: devil

New law aims to weed out draft cheaters
By Elias Hazou Published on February 15, 2011
Cyprus, draft dodgers, law, national guard
TIGHTER PHYSICAL and psychological assessments of army conscripts are at the heart of the new National Guard law geared at weeding out draft cheaters.
The law stipulates that for conscripts who got an enlistment waiver on or after January 1, 1995 on any grounds, the Defence Minister “may” refer them for re-evaluation, and, if they are deemed fit they will be drafted to serve the full 24 months. Persons with a permanent disability are excluded.
If a person is deemed fit and eligible for re-enlistment, he may get a deferral for up to six years. Anyone with a deferral or enlistment waiver must undergo re-evaluation once a year until the age of 40. Failure to show up at a re-evaluation constitutes an offence punishable by law.
An initial deferral will apply for one year but may be extended for a further five years.
Previously, enlistment waivers (also referred to as a ‘provisional discharge’) had been granted based on a system known as “6+6+1.” If a conscript got out of the army he would be re-evaluated after six months, and if he was still deemed unfit would get another six months. If the medical panel then upheld its prior decision, the conscript would get another deferral valid for one year. At the end of that year a final evaluation would take place, and if the conscript was again considered unfit he would be ‘provisionally discharged’ and would not be called in for another evaluation.
Under the previous system, the Defence Minister likewise reserved the right to recall persons who had got an enlistment waiver – but this was rarely exercised. What changes in the new law is that this is stated more explicitly.
“Whether the thousands who have evaded their military service since 1995 can be tracked down is another matter,” said DISY MP Soteris Sampson, who sits on the House Defence Committee.
It is estimated that every year more than 1,000 conscripts manage to dodge the draft on psychological or disability grounds. The phenomenon has been largely blamed on doctors rubberstamping conscripts’ claims that they are mentally or physically unfit to do their stint.
The new law abolishes the ‘alternative service’ introduced in 2007 for those deemed mentally unfit to serve. This has been replaced by ‘special service’ of 32 months, and applies even to draftees who have been deemed to suffer from ‘psychopathological’ conditions.
Draftees thus deemed not fully fit – mentally or physically – will be posted to National Guard units in their home district and, while they will not be assigned to any particular corps, they will be subject to all military regulations. They will wear army fatigues but will not be issued a weapon. They will be exempt from guard and sentry duty, and, as a rule, will not spend the night in camp. Their duties will include menial jobs, construction work and logistical duties.
The main thrust of the crackdown lies in the tighter scrutiny of disability claims. Henceforth the assessment of the medical panel will not be seen as carte blanche, but will be subject to a monitoring committee ensuring that decisions comply with the law. The committee will issue an annual report on the cases brought before it.
For all conscripts, the discharge document will outline the duration and type of service. On entering civilian life, ‘special service’ conscripts, in particular those who claimed mental disability, will be barred from being employed as police officers, constables, private security guards and bus drivers.
Another major change is that service will be mandatory for persons of Cypriot descent, not just by their father (as is the case today) but also by their mother, even if these persons do not have Cypriot citizenship but are permanent residents here. Such persons will serve the full 24 months. Repatriated persons of Cypriot descent will serve six months only.
And for the first time there is an explicit provision on the extent of the stint for foreign nationals who acquire Cypriot citizenship. Those doing so by their 18th year will serve 14 months.
The law also stipulates a shorter stint for designated categories of conscripts, for example a conscript who is the only or eldest son in a family where both parents are ‘completely disabled’ shall also be eligible for a reduced length of service. Special dispensations will be given to children of large families.
Armenians, Maronites and Muslims with Cypriot citizenship will do a full stint. Turkish Cypriot Muslims holding citizenship of the Republic are exempt due to having served in the occupied areas.
Conscientious objectors must enlist but will be assigned to work at governmental or semi-governmental departments.
In addition to sick leave and regular leave, honorary and parental leave are added.
Persons convicted for failure to enlist or for desertion will be considered as having committed an offence involving dishonesty and will be stripped of certain of their civic rights, including the right to vote or stand in any election.

Posted By: geoffreys

  • panayiota wrote:
    We all know when living in Cyprus that you can get many different answers to the same question from people and usually you live with it.but i need to know where to get an answer that is 100% accurate and can show to any official body and they say o.k.The question is this;I am Britsh Cypriot and my Husband British.our son is 16 and he wants to get an ID card .if we apply for him we have been told he will have to go in the army for 2 years.But we were told before that this applyys only of the father is a British cypriot.Then we were told recently that the law has now changed to children of Bc mothers.where can i find out the true facts.Even if this is true can he be forced to go? any answers appriciated.

This might seem a silly question, but why does he want/need an ID card at all? A British Passport will surely suffice, and he can maybe avoid National Service?
Geoff

Posted By: cansweet

You may have just answered the question.

Posted By: Tangutica

So you ALL live in Cyprus? And are not just 'repatriating' here? (If that's the case wouldn't he have an ID card already?) What Devil posted reads to me as if he does live here - liable for 2 yrs. If 'repatriating' here - liable for 6 months. I've know a married couple - he is Cypriot and she is British. She came here when she was about 15 and they've been married more than 60 yrs. They lived for a long time in UK and S. Africa. The Cypriot husband has a British passport, the British wife has a Cypriot passport! (I get a bit confused about this passport stuff!)

Posted By: pantheman

Panayiota, as things currently are, having a British (non-cypriot) father he is not obliged to do the service. He would never have needed to get any exit visas either. However all is about to change as shown by Devil, if the law gets passed. But take a look at this link, it may help. http://www.cy4za.com/army.htm Good luck.

Posted By: worker

also what if the children dont speak greek .... how will they know what to do in the army if they all speak greek to them ...like weapon training.??





Posted By: pantheman

  • worker wrote:
    also what if the children dont speak greek .... how will they know what to do in the army if they all speak greek to them ...like weapon training.??

well there are 3 options as I see them.
1. Tough (as they would say!)
2. They'll soon learn
3. There are enough people who speak english to help.
Actually I once saw a young lad being taken away at the airport, he couldn't speak a word of greek, he thought he was OK, but he grand father was Cyp and they used that excuse. Bless him, ever did find out how he got on.

Posted By: panayiota

Thanks for the info people,in reply to your comments. Is this law yet? surely as a British citizen and cyprus being part of the EU,they cant force him to join,as in theory he needs to work.It would be pointless anyway as he cant understand greek . We just thought having an ID card would be easier than carrying a passport around.perhaps we will leave it.

Posted By: devil

Of course they can force him to join; the EU has nothing to do with it. Furthermore, they can (and do) stop those who are eligible for NG service from leaving the country. Read what it says in his passport about dual nationality. I'm afraid you should face the facts.

Posted By: Charnwood Fox

It's 20 years ago, but a colleague went to Cyprus for a holiday. Being the son of Greek Cypriots he got collared for national service. Quite a long holiday - with free board and lodging courtesy of the NG.

Posted By: alicat1971

I guess the police or straight to the army would be the best people to go and ask. A few years ago when we lived in Cyprus, my husband forgot to go to one of his weekend training sessions that they have to do a few times a year, the military police turned up and took him away!!! A bit scary at the time, he had his dates mixed up. A fine and slap on the wrist later, all was well. Maybe your son will just miss the dates if the law gets changed. Our son, who is half Cypriot too (Father Cypriot, Mother English) will have to do his, albeit 6months as we live in the UK. He is blond haired, blue eyed, having picked up nothing Cypriot in looks, so I will be dreading it! Hope you get things sorted.

Posted By: Tangutica

Charnwood I heard a story like that one too. But I seem to remember him saying he'd been here some months and there was some sort of time limit on it if he didn't want to serve it? Can't remember properly now but it was like if he stayed for more than xx length of time he would have to do his NS.

Posted By: steph

I remember back in early 2000s while working in Ayia Napa a lot of English Cypriot workers out for the summer used to leave within 6 months and the odd few I knew that stayed longer went to an office in Nicosia to get signed off for being called for National service by showing proof they didn't live here full time. So being permanent residents probably makes him eligable although I really hope you find a way out of it for him like all mothers I dread the thought of it!! my son is only 2.5yrs so hopefully by the time he's old enough they wont have it anymore!



Posted By: Kwacka

Only males get the honour of serving their country? Isn't that sexual discrimination?

Posted By: Xhristina

Only males are conscripted, but females can do voluntary service should they wish. As to ID cards legally anyone living here over the age of 12 should have one.

Posted By: spurs

Panayioda if you go to Larnaca in the little square behind Zara's, the National guard have an office there , they are extremely helpful, just go there and tell them your situation, they will tell you exactly were you stand and what if any obligations your son has..better to hear it direct rather then to listen to maybes and mights........

Posted By: Andrew Brooks

I can understand this 'national service' from some angles but really can't see what military practical benefit it provides. An acquaintance announced to me only last week that he'd just done a few hours training with the army. He's a government worker and he went on to say how much he believes this costs the country. In my own inimitable style, I questioned what the value was in this training and he confidently replied that it was so they could defend us all from any future Turkish invasion. In reality, they'd have no chance, so wouldn't a smaller, professional military, be more sensible, to deal with civil unrest and football hooligans etc ? They could even send some of them to Afghanistan and other hotspots where military aid is required.

Posted By: Charnwood Fox

  • Xhristina wrote:
    males are conscripted, but females can do voluntary service

Isn't THAT sexual discrimination?

Posted By: Xhristina

Mark - think you will find that conscription of men into the National guard is I believe a question of Military need and not equality.
Very much the same as for USA (Draft - which can be re-activated when ever they want) and also Russia - neither of which conscript women unless they feel the military need.
Panayiota -
You will find here the current list of exemptions - which may or not change depending on whether the new laws are passed.

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/All/95CA59517D71705EC22571A40028701F?OpenDocument

Posted By: steensrestaurant

Just a note on what Andrew said previously - A Cypriot friend of my mine went for his annual days shooting practice. When it came his turn to fire he was handed 3 bullets to fire by an instructor to which he made the comments, ' What the goodness are we going to do if the Turks come, throw stones at them '? ( Or words to that effect )



Posted By: gbuck

The GCNG would be much better off as a smaller, professional force, with a voluntary reserve. They would have no chance against NATO's 2nd largest army without serious intervention; so what's the point of a large conscripted NG? Turkey could walk across the green line tomorrow and have the rest of the island by the weekend, if they so desired. They don't. And never will.

Posted By: Tangutica

With all the press about the draft dodgers here and all the enquiries about how to 'get out of doing it'. I wonder what is the use of an army where a lot of the 'soldiers' are there under sufferance? Not because they want to 'serve their country'. I have an army camp at the end of the road. There must be some who do a sort of 'nine to five' service, because I see their mums dropping them off with what looks like packed lunch!

Posted By: Shedman

    Quote:
  • so what's the point of a large conscripted NG?

IMO quite a lot.
1) There's that sense of tradition.
2) The pride felt among your family/peers because "you've done your bit".
3) An identity and cultural stimulus that connects you to your Motherland.
which in turn
4) Generates respect toward your fellow Countrymen.
I think that 'respect' is reflected largely in the low Cyprus crime figures and in the general attitude to life.
More of the same needed in my Motherland, I'd suggest.

Posted By: PepsiCan

  • gbuck wrote:
    The GCNG would be much better off as a smaller, professional force, with a voluntary reserve.
    They would have no chance against NATO's 2nd largest army without serious intervention; so what's the point of a large conscripted NG?
    Turkey could walk across the green line tomorrow and have the rest of the island by the weekend, if they so desired. They don't. And never will.

I think you grossly overestimate the abilities of the Turkish army.

Posted By: pantheman

  • PepsiCan wrote:
    • gbuck wrote:
      The GCNG would be much better off as a smaller, professional force, with a voluntary reserve.
      They would have no chance against NATO's 2nd largest army without serious intervention; so what's the point of a large conscripted NG?
      Turkey could walk across the green line tomorrow and have the rest of the island by the weekend, if they so desired. They don't. And never will.

    I think you grossly overestimate the abilities of the Turkish army.

I think he grossly under estimates the capabilities of the CNG.
I don't deny that Turkey will take us in the end, but it won't be a wash over that you make out.
150,000 dug in troops in their own country, just look at afganistan and Iraq. These example alone must tell you something.

Posted By: panayiota

Thank you spurs for what i think is the bst advice,go and talk to them. I would like to say thanks to everyone else on the forum even the patronising "devil",just because its in the paper doe not mean it is law yet,many cypriot friends no nothing about it and my son has no duel nationality on his passport.

Posted By: spurs

  • panayiota wrote:
    Thank you spurs for what i think is the bst advice,go and talk to them.
    I would like to say thanks to everyone else on the forum even the patronising "devil",just because its in the paper doe not mean it is law yet,many cypriot friends no nothing about it and my son has no duel nationality on his passport.
.....no problem Panayiota..I always think its best to go straight to the people that know what their talking about ..rather then listen to people with too much time on their hands spinning this and spinning that to score petty points.



Posted By: Andrew Brooks

I agree with Shedman's reasoning to an extent but Pan's suggestion of 150k 'digging in' against a professional army with air support is wishful thinking at best, imo of course. If they'd wanted to take more of the island they would have done so in 74 and created a sort of Gaza strip between the two sovereign bases. The only way out of this is through the people, particularly the children, mixing and eroding the baby eating perception of the other side. Cross community exchanges will eventually bring about the trust to sort out the property issues peacefully and with give and take. The younger generation is the solution IF they are encouraged to engage with eachother. I see no chance of progress with those already indoctrinated or with first hand memories of the atrocities carried out by both sides.

Posted By: pantheman

  • Andrew Brooks wrote:
    I agree with Shedman's reasoning to an extent but Pan's suggestion of 150k 'digging in' against a professional army with air support is wishful thinking at best, imo of course.

Yeah, you made my day, thanks I needed a good laugh. :lol: :lol: :lol:
The events of '74 are no comparison to what is today. Turkey had a clear path into Cyprus with virtually no resistance. Yes, they could easily have taken it when there is no one to stop you.
There are many reasons for this, but feel free to research them.
If you think, trying to remove 150k dug in soldiers defending their own country is wishful thinking, I don't think you understand modern warfare.
As I said, Afganistan and Iraq are living proof. The kicked the Russians ass alright.
Anyway, we have gone way of thread.

Posted By: Andrew Brooks

Why not go for it then mate, they're clearly there for the taking ? They've only got 40k up north and you have 150k.......... should be easy.

Posted By: pantheman

  • Andrew Brooks wrote:
    Why not go for it then mate, they're clearly there for the taking ?
    They've only got 40k up north and you have 150k.......... should be easy.

Unfortunately, now you have again resorted to talking bo**ocks!
I didn't say we could take them, read my post, I said they will not find it as easy as they did in '74.
Cheers.

Posted By: Steve - SJD

I think the original question has been answered and this is now going well off topic. Cheers Steve

Posted By: don

AB , sorry mate but the Turkish Army is not a professional army they have the same requirements national service. If you take them out of the figures I wonder how many full time soilders there are?
  • Andrew Brooks wrote:
    I agree with Shedman's reasoning to an extent but Pan's suggestion of 150k 'digging in' against a professional army with air support is wishful thinking at best, imo of course.
    If they'd wanted to take more of the island they would have done so in 74 and created a sort of Gaza strip between the two sovereign bases.
    The only way out of this is through the people, particularly the children, mixing and eroding the baby eating perception of the other side.
    Cross community exchanges will eventually bring about the trust to sort out the property issues peacefully and with give and take.
    The younger generation is the solution IF they are encouraged to engage with eachother.
    I see no chance of progress with those already indoctrinated or with first hand memories of the atrocities carried out by both sides.



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